The Summer Holiday Shuffle
In this episode of With Both Hands, we talk about the push and pull of motherhood and work during the summer holidays. Juggling childcare and business can feel impossible at times, and with it often comes guilt, conflict and the pressure to keep everyone happy.
We share our own experiences of summer, the messy moments, the unexpected joys, and the small ways we’ve tried to stay present with our children while also keeping things moving at work. We also reflect on that tricky shift back into routines once the holidays end, and why it’s so important to give ourselves grace through those transitions.
At the heart of this conversation is a reminder to slow down, strip things back, and focus on the moments that truly matter in family life.
Transcript
We're back after summer break.
Speaker A:I'm Laura.
Speaker A:And I'm Claire.
Speaker B:This is episode three of With Both Hands.
Speaker B:So how's it been, Claire?
Speaker B:I've not really spoke to you since the whole summer debacle.
Speaker B:And back to school.
Speaker B:Shall we have a little bit of a catch up on what happened over the summer break?
Speaker A:A debrief?
Speaker A:Yeah, Obviously, I think, as with all of us who work, the summer holiday juggle is challenging.
Speaker A:So my little boy has just finished reception and into year one.
Speaker A:So this is actually my first year of proper all in, like school holidays.
Speaker A:From one from the end of summer term into the beginning of autumn terms.
Speaker A:The first time I've done that properly.
Speaker A:Um, and then obviously I've got the.
Speaker B:18 month old as well.
Speaker A:What I really find with the summer is I am pulled between in one sense, I love kind of the freedom.
Speaker A:I love having the kids and being able to, you know, go down to the park and have ice creams and do nice little, little fun things.
Speaker A:Just as a human and definitely as in business.
Speaker A:I am someone who really thrives with a little bit of structure.
Speaker A:So I find the summer challenging because I need space and I need alone time in order to be able to ideate and for my creativity to flow and for me to just get things done productively.
Speaker A:I'm not great at, oh, I've got 20 minutes, let's see if I can box off a couple of tasks here before I'm back into it.
Speaker A:I'm not great at that.
Speaker A:My brain doesn't really work that way, so I find that quite challenging.
Speaker A:That's probably the biggest one.
Speaker A:And just the slowdown and simultaneously the feeling a little bit guilty if I don't love every second of it because, you know, it's.
Speaker A:We've only got 18 summers and all that stuff, so I feel like I should be making the most of it.
Speaker A:And when part of my brain is still occupied with work that I'm falling behind on, I find that really difficult and I find that the mum guilt starts to kind of set in.
Speaker A:Conflicting.
Speaker A:That would be the word I would use.
Speaker A:It's been conflicting.
Speaker A:There's parts of it that have been so lovely, then other parts where it's just felt really difficult and really kind of frustrating almost because I feel blocked in both areas.
Speaker A:Like I can't fully embrace the freedom of the summer holidays, but I also can't fully throw myself into productive work.
Speaker A:So that's how it's felt for me.
Speaker B:What about you?
Speaker B:How was yours?
Speaker B:Very similar.
Speaker B:So I'm Another person who can't do 20 minutes of this and then 20 minutes of that.
Speaker B:I had a big conversation with Cuban about this, the weekend, actually, but we'll talk about that later.
Speaker B:For the summer holidays.
Speaker B:I finished summer holiday saying we are never doing that again.
Speaker B:Context.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I have been the corporate girl for a lot of my motherhood journey.
Speaker B:So I have been the mum that goes from dropping my children off at school and then they go to after school club, and I just work 9 till 5 the whole time.
Speaker B:Slash, 9 till 8pm and then when we got to some holidays, it was, okay, well, now I don't drop off at school.
Speaker B:Now I drop you off at this holiday club.
Speaker B:But I've always optimized a lot of childcare to get me where I need to do in my career.
Speaker B: Now over the last, since: Speaker B:But also, my children are autistic and childcare options actually aren't an option for me anymore.
Speaker B:They can't cope in that situation.
Speaker B:There is very few sen groups in summer holidays that can meet children's needs.
Speaker B:So even though I probably would optimise childcare probably more than you, Claire, I actually don't have the option anymore.
Speaker B:So it's not just a case of I like freedom.
Speaker B:I actually quite like structure and I like to work quite a lot.
Speaker B:I don't have the option anymore because I have to be there for my children because there is no childcare option for them.
Speaker B:And that brings its own challenges when, as the breadwinner of my family, I have to bring a certain amount of income in, which means I can't just not work the summer when I haven't built up a pot to cover it.
Speaker B:Which is one of the things that we've discussed this weekend in particular, that next summer we will have that because we cannot continue to work the way we're trying to juggle everything in that summer period in saying that.
Speaker B:This narrative of you only get 18 summers has played on loop in my grain as well.
Speaker B:I look at them and I'm like, I can't believe how quick they're growing, grow up.
Speaker B:But I also think there's this notion that you only get 18 summers of them being children.
Speaker B:But actually, I absolutely adore being with my teenagers at the minute because of the depth of conversation I can have with them, some of the conversations they would bring into the dinner table.
Speaker B:I've not had that intellectual conversation with some adults.
Speaker B:Let alone young children.
Speaker B:Well, they're not young children, but teenagers.
Speaker B:It gave me a lot of hope for the future that these kids are actually thinking about the world in such.
Speaker B:With critical thinking brains and in such a deep way.
Speaker B:So I absolutely adored having time for them to have those conversations.
Speaker B:But yeah, the juggle was real, really.
Speaker B:It was really tough.
Speaker B:And I came out of some I thinking, yes, we're back to school.
Speaker B:And then that's brought on a whole different Lord of Admin, which I'm sure we'll touch on when we think about how did it feel?
Speaker B:I think I'd say it felt like I was still trying to live in a way that I used to live whilst having one foot in what I want it to be in future.
Speaker B:And I feel like another summer will get us closer to how it feels at ease.
Speaker B:Like I'd like to get to a peaceful summer to an ease full summer.
Speaker B:And this one still felt like it was a bit of a push, like I had to get through it.
Speaker B:And I don't want to feel like that.
Speaker B:I want to feel like we're flowing through our seasons.
Speaker B:So, yeah, still work to do.
Speaker B:I'd say it was one of the best summers.
Speaker B:And I'll probably haven't painted that picture here, but I think it was.
Speaker B:It was just the contradiction and the constant, am I doing enough in this part of my life and am I doing enough in that part of my life was tricky for me.
Speaker A:And I don't think that will ever fully go away, will it?
Speaker A:I think that's always going to be present.
Speaker A:But what you say about it being almost in progress and that's what we talk about, isn't it?
Speaker A:When we talk about the fact that it doesn't have to look one way and you can create how you want it to look.
Speaker A:You know, we're always trying to figure out how we want to build these lives for them to look the way that we want to wear.
Speaker A:We talk about holding both with grace.
Speaker A:We talk about being present with our kids.
Speaker A:We talk about honoring our ambitions and our creative drive and our businesses and finding the way to balance all those things is always going to be a process, isn't it?
Speaker A:It's always going to be something that you're constantly fine tuning and constantly trying to figure out how this works.
Speaker A:And we could do that differently and maybe, maybe next time we do this.
Speaker A:But yeah, definitely peace and ease.
Speaker A:That is 100% what I'm shooting for as well.
Speaker A:And I think obviously my kids are a lot younger than yours, so you know, my considerations are still very much in the, like, you know, logistics of keeping everyone safe and warm and fed and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker A:But it's so lovely to hear about the conversations you're having with your teenagers.
Speaker A:Like, that just is a testament to what a great job you've done, isn't it, that you can sit around the dinner.
Speaker A:That's what everyone wants.
Speaker A:You want to be able to sit around a dinner table with your teenagers, children and.
Speaker A:And have those kind of conversations with them?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I don't think it's every night.
Speaker B:Like, I don't want to pick a picture where every night, maybe once a week, where we're all around the table.
Speaker B:Again, I have autistics, and around the table, for me isn't necessarily that everyone is sat down, eating nicely.
Speaker B:It might be like someone's got a plate on the floor, but we're all in the same room and we're all engaged in our own ways.
Speaker B:And there's usually someone orbiting the table because they can't sit still long enough to eat.
Speaker B:But the conversations are getting deeper, and I love that.
Speaker B:My eldest is just gone into year 11.
Speaker B:We'll touch on that later as well.
Speaker B:But he's declared all this summer that he wants to study philosophy at A level.
Speaker B:So we're currently on the hunt for colleges that actually offer philosophy at his A level.
Speaker B:Even the fact that he wants to understand how people think and work and how culture is derived, and the fact that he's having those conversations and, like, he's asking me some, have you ever thought about this, Mom?
Speaker B:I was like, actually, I haven't.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Thank you for bringing that to me.
Speaker B:There's something else for me to think about.
Speaker B:Today is wonderful in its own way.
Speaker B:I think that is probably my biggest win this summer.
Speaker B:Just before the summer holidays, our eldest was disconnecting from the family unit.
Speaker B:There was a lot of behavior that we weren't too keen on.
Speaker B:There was a lot of people saying, oh, it needs more discipline, needs this, that, and the other.
Speaker B:And I just don't agree with it.
Speaker B:And everyone parents in their own way.
Speaker B:But I do think if you invite connection in and bring them in, that's better than grounding and taking things off them and making them feel unsafe.
Speaker B:I want them to feel so safe they can bring anything to me.
Speaker B:And I really leaned into.
Speaker B:I really need to connect back to this boy in whatever way is necessary.
Speaker B:And that looked like inviting him into things and not getting annoyed when he said no.
Speaker B:So I was inviting him to family Night inviting him, Always inviting him back in.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Sometimes he said yes.
Speaker B:A lot of the times I said no.
Speaker B:But by the end of the summer, he was back at the family table eating his tea.
Speaker B:He was back saying, love you at the end of his text messages.
Speaker B:Like, all that had kind of disappeared before summer.
Speaker B:And now we're back and connected again.
Speaker B:Which means somehow over the summer, when I felt like I wasn't quite doing it all for everybody, we've done something because he is back in.
Speaker B:Like, we do feel very like he's back in with the family unit, which is great.
Speaker A:That's so great.
Speaker A:I know that we.
Speaker A:We kind of take a quite a similar stance on parenting.
Speaker A:I think sometimes as parents urges to.
Speaker A:Because we want to fix it, right?
Speaker A:So the urge is to take control of the situation and we have to do something to make this right.
Speaker A:When actually, I think sometimes the most effective way is like you say, just to kind of take a little step back, surrender to what's happening a little bit and just keep the door open gently and let them come back, which takes a lot of trust.
Speaker A:And again, trust comes back to connection.
Speaker A:So I think that relationship is super important, but I think if you have that connection, that's something you can then fall back on over and over again as things come up.
Speaker A:But, yeah, it's really nice to hear that he's back at the table.
Speaker A:That is a big win.
Speaker B:As I'm talking about it, it sounds like, oh, it's super easy.
Speaker B:I was grounded as a kid.
Speaker B:I had my devices taken off me.
Speaker B:I was in a house that was very strict and controlling at times.
Speaker B:And when you've got this teenager in front of you to go against that is really hard in the moment.
Speaker B:Like, you question yourself, am I doing the right thing?
Speaker B:Is this the right thing?
Speaker B:What if he makes the next stupid decision?
Speaker B:And actually there's no coming back from that.
Speaker B:Obviously, I have a lot of trauma with teenage boys.
Speaker B:With the fact that my brother died at 17.
Speaker B:That's airing for me as well as a cursing, am I doing the right thing?
Speaker B:Like that question that constant, is this the right decision?
Speaker B:Is there?
Speaker B:I don't want it to sound like I've got this figured out.
Speaker B:I really don't.
Speaker B:But I trusted myself.
Speaker B:And the amount of times I said to him, I trust you to make the right decision.
Speaker B:I will be here to pick up the pieces, but I won't fix it for you.
Speaker B:Like, if you make a mess, it'll be on you to make that mess better.
Speaker B:But I'll hold your hand while you do it.
Speaker B:I won't be mopping up for you.
Speaker B:He needs to understand the consequences of his own decisions, whilst also knowing that the door will never be closed for us.
Speaker B:Like we will always support and help him as long as he wants to support and help himself.
Speaker B:This summer in particular has been.
Speaker B:It's been dreamy.
Speaker B:And one of the things I think that's brought him back is the card games that we play.
Speaker B:A lot of hard games with the children's shithead.
Speaker B:Everyone likes it because it means they get to swear.
Speaker B:Like if anyone hasn't played it.
Speaker B:It's a game where it has a bit of strategy, but it's also open to a lot of luck.
Speaker B:So it's quite fun and you never know which way it's going to go.
Speaker B:But we started playing it last Christmas.
Speaker B:Like we upped our ante and actually started doing proper card games.
Speaker B:And at night, once the five year old's in bed, it was like, does anyone want a game of cards?
Speaker B:We'd invite him in, some days he'd say no, but by the end of summer he was in there every night having a card game with us.
Speaker A:I said, yeah, anything like that.
Speaker A:Any kind of family ritual stuff I think is so powerful.
Speaker A:Todd and I were having a conversation the other night.
Speaker A:I'll have to find the source.
Speaker A:He found this article he'd been reading, have to find a source and link it.
Speaker A:But basically it was talking about the way that children form memories and that actually things like routine, family traditions, family rituals, the things that are consistent and that happen over and over again, those are the things that kind of hardwire memories into their brains.
Speaker A:Those are the things that will shape, you know, their recollection of their childhood.
Speaker A:And I think that's so powerful and so such a nice thing to hold in mind when, especially when it comes to things like the summer holidays.
Speaker A:And I think that we're all exposed to a huge amount of pressure from the online space.
Speaker A:Obviously we've talked before about kind of mums on Instagram and the sort of various ways that motherhood is portrayed and the amount of pressure that that can place on needing everything to be perfect and painting an inaccurate picture of how it actually looks.
Speaker A:And I think that that goes into overdrive for the summer holidays.
Speaker A:You know, like, I absolutely cannot stand this hashtag core memories, like making core memories for my kids.
Speaker A:And it's some very elaborate sort of staged setup of an Instagram worthy home movie in the garden or something like that.
Speaker A:That's so inauthentic.
Speaker A:To me, that isn't the thing that's going to be a core memory for kids.
Speaker A:You know, obviously, it's nice to do those things sometimes, if it comes from a genuine place.
Speaker A:You want to treat your kids sometimes you want to set up surprises for them, you want to do fun things with them and make the summer holidays memorable.
Speaker A:But I also think that kids will form memories just fine on their own.
Speaker A:And when they look back at their childhood as adults, the things that they're going to remember are playing shithead around the table and Friday pizza and movie nights and, you know, the specific things that your family does at Christmas time, the things that happen over and over again, and that kind of embed them in a sense of family identity.
Speaker A:I think that that provides a lot of safety.
Speaker A:So it makes sense to me when you say that, you know, that was one of the things that you think brought him back this summer, kind of grounding in something which feels very, very kind of rooted in family and safety and security.
Speaker A:And it's predictable and it's consistent, and that'll be something that the kids remember.
Speaker A:And I think that kind of a little bit of a readjustment to focusing on that over things like the summer holidays can take a lot of pressure off.
Speaker A:You don't need to create elaborate plans.
Speaker A:You don't need to particularly spend loads and loads of money or make sure that it's all filmed for Instagram.
Speaker A:I think, like, this summer, we've spent a load of time down at the park.
Speaker A:When I asked my little boy what his favorite part of summer was, he said, BlackBerry picking.
Speaker A:And we literally had just gone down to the park.
Speaker A:There's loads and loads of BlackBerry bushes all around the swings.
Speaker A:I'd forgotten a bag.
Speaker A:I didn't even take a bag.
Speaker A:So I emptied out a packet of wet wipes, and we just got blackberries and filled up this wet white packet and then brought them home and made a crumble.
Speaker A:And he said that was his favorite part of the whole summer.
Speaker A:And I think that we forget sometimes in our adult sense of, you know, what we need to do that kids actually, they don't care how it looks.
Speaker A:They just want that connection with you in the moment.
Speaker A:And those small things that you do, just spending time with them, being fully present, I think those are the things that are really important, a hundred percent.
Speaker B:I asked my daughter the exact.
Speaker B:Well, not the exact same question.
Speaker B:I asked her, what's one of your favorite memories of me?
Speaker B:I was interested, I was curious.
Speaker B:And she's like, mom, I think it was a time or whenever I just walk into the kitchen and you're just dancing.
Speaker B:And I didn't even realize that I danced in the kitchen that much.
Speaker B:I danced in the kitchen enough that that's her favorite memory of me.
Speaker B:That she walks into the kitchen and finds me just dusting about to whatever's on.
Speaker A:So nice.
Speaker A:What a nice picture of you in her head.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:Isn't it beautiful?
Speaker B:Not many people will ever see me dancing in the kitchen, but she does.
Speaker B:And that is one of her favorite memories of me.
Speaker B:And I just think that's not staged.
Speaker B:It's not for the ground, it's not for anything.
Speaker B:It's just really authentic.
Speaker B:And it also shows that there's always a sense of play, which I am big on.
Speaker B:I don't think we should be taking play out of our lives just because we're adults.
Speaker B:And I think we should be inviting in as much as possible.
Speaker B:I think play is one of.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:There's probably studies about this.
Speaker B:I know there's definitely studies for children in play and how playing helps them learn.
Speaker B:But I truly believe that it's the same for adults.
Speaker B:And if we invited more play in, there would be less war.
Speaker B:I think if we did more playing as adults, we would be less stressed.
Speaker B:And so I try and invite play into my everyday.
Speaker B:And the fact that, yeah, that's her favourite memory of me just pissing about in the kitchen dancing to whatever's on the radio is.
Speaker B:I feel like that is perfect.
Speaker B:I couldn't have staged that better if I tried.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:And it wouldn't be the same if you had.
Speaker A:She took you by surprise.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker A:That's the thing she holds in her head.
Speaker A:And that's perfect.
Speaker B:Unintentional.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I did ask the boys, but I can't remember what they were.
Speaker B:They were something nonsense.
Speaker B:Like the way you make pizza.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's the difference, isn't that.
Speaker A:That's boys.
Speaker A:When you fed me that time, when.
Speaker B:You fed me that same meal you feed me every day because I refuse to eat anything other than pizza at the minute.
Speaker A:At least you don't have to do complex meal plans.
Speaker B:No, we don't have complex meal plans in our house because autistics, they're all very particular on what they eat.
Speaker B:The way that you now have to get veggies in them is we just.
Speaker B:Everything has a side of chopped up carrots and chopped up cucumber per.
Speaker B:So it's peak.
Speaker B:So cucumber cherry tomatoes are back on plates.
Speaker B:Actually, there's a couple of them eating them at the minute.
Speaker A:Nothing wrong with that.
Speaker A:So coming out of the summer, how have you found the back to school, the return to work, the beginning of September, that transitional shift, how's that been for you?
Speaker B:Oh, big question.
Speaker B:So coming out of summer, into this period one, we're in the new office, which is probably why it's a bit echoey today.
Speaker B:So apologies, I need to get some things on the walls to stop this being so equity.
Speaker B:But we have a new office.
Speaker B:It was one of the reasons, yeah, the summer juggle and trying to work from home with four children, I was like, I can't do this next year.
Speaker B:I need a space.
Speaker B:I need a second space away from working at home.
Speaker B:Working at home has been brilliant for the last five years, but I need a space.
Speaker B:And I was so excited.
Speaker B:I was like, the kids are going to go to school, we're going to have so much time.
Speaker B:And then first week back came and I remembered how much bloody admin there is with schools and now actually I don't have that much time.
Speaker B:And then I got annoyed because I was like, I want to get shit done.
Speaker B:Like I have that get shit done energy in my body and I want it, I want to do it.
Speaker B:Like we have big plans for the business, we have big plans for our personal achievements as well, and I just wanted to get it done.
Speaker B:And instead I was in the administration of school and in my emotions.
Speaker B:Like my emotions were high this September and I wasn't expecting it.
Speaker B:So last September I had big transitions.
Speaker B:So I had my youngest starting in reception, my 8 year old, my current 8 year old was moving into juniors last year my daughter started high school and my eldest was starting his GCSE year.
Speaker B:So last September I was expecting the emotions.
Speaker B:Like that was something I kind of preempted and I was like, I had time in the diary, I was working out and this year, so it's just a.
Speaker B:Any usual September and everything's gonna be fine.
Speaker B:So I didn't really have a space in my September because I needed to get stuff done.
Speaker B:I felt behind from the summer and yeah, my emotions decided to just arrive anyway because that's what emotions do, isn't it?
Speaker B:The start of it was dropping my elder staff at the train station.
Speaker B:So he boards at school Monday to Friday and he goes on a Sunday night and I dropped him off at the train station and he just walked in, did not look back at me once.
Speaker B:My eyes just filled.
Speaker B:Like this year is his last first September.
Speaker B:Like it's his last first day.
Speaker B:He's in year 11.
Speaker B:This is like the end of his traditional schooling.
Speaker B:And the way he just walked into that train station, I was so proud of him and saw that this is the surrender of your children.
Speaker B:He is actually okay to catch a train that has a connection.
Speaker B:He has to get off at a different station and get a different train.
Speaker B:And the fact that he's built, he can do that now and then he can just go to school for the week, and then he'll just catch a train back on Friday and everything will be fine and he'll do his work after school.
Speaker B:It really got me this year.
Speaker B:Really, really got me.
Speaker B:Yeah, this year it just felt different.
Speaker B:He just looks different, he's acting different, the way he talks is different.
Speaker B:He's is growing up in front of my eyes.
Speaker B:And then one of my friends, her youngest, started in reception.
Speaker B:In fact, not her youngest.
Speaker B:Her only child started reception.
Speaker B:So she was having that whole letting him go.
Speaker B:And she messaged me and she was like, I just want to get stuff done.
Speaker B:And yet I just can't get my brain to work because I'm just like, oh, my God, my baby's at school.
Speaker B:I said, but this is a season of being and not doing.
Speaker B:Like, just be this week and stop trying to do, because clearly your brain and your emotional system isn't working.
Speaker B:Just, just, just be in the.
Speaker B:Be in the business of being this week.
Speaker B:And then I messaged her a few days later.
Speaker B:Oh, my God, I can't, you know, on my head, I keep crying, and she's like, babe, you're in the season of being.
Speaker B:And I like, do not do that to me.
Speaker B:Do not use my words against me in that way.
Speaker A:Do not power up my wisdom back at me.
Speaker B:But I needed it.
Speaker B:I needed to hear it because I wanted to get shit done.
Speaker B:And instead I was crying about the fact that my child's like, that's how ridiculous it is.
Speaker B:I've had so many periods when my children have not been fine and not always had hope because it's something I think is just ingrained in me.
Speaker B:I will always find the light to latch onto and to keep hopeful.
Speaker B:But this time I'm crying because all my kids are actually in education settings that are going to meet their needs.
Speaker B:They're doing okay, if not thriving.
Speaker B:And that hit me like a ton of bricks.
Speaker B:Like, oh, my God, we actually did it.
Speaker B:We've actually made it through that.
Speaker B:And, yeah, I didn't have any space in my diary, so next year I'm planning a Spa day.
Speaker B:And that first week, September, I am going to honor it.
Speaker B:I am going to do that because I think we just need that space to be in that being without trying to do the doing.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's an excellent idea.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's strange, isn't it?
Speaker A:Like, you plan time for the difficult stuff, but we don't set aside time for ourselves when everything's going okay.
Speaker A:And it's almost like factoring in, like, imagine how much you've been holding, you know, years of finding education settings for the kids and worrying that things aren't okay.
Speaker A:And all of a sudden, like, the release, like, everybody's okay.
Speaker A:Of course that's going to be a big emotional wave because your body's been holding all that and it can release it.
Speaker B:Maybe.
Speaker A:Maybe what we need is actually instead of like the September New Year, you want to call it, that being the 1st of September, we need a soft launch September.
Speaker A:We need like a second week of September.
Speaker A:The first week of September is for spa days and crying and eating chocolate and, you know, coping.
Speaker A:And then we can all go back to work on the second week of September.
Speaker A:Maybe we can just agree that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I feel like that's next year.
Speaker B:That ease and flow thing that we talked about earlier, that has to happen next year.
Speaker B:Like that first feedback.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We're not back.
Speaker B:We don't go back.
Speaker B:Kids go back.
Speaker B:We don't.
Speaker B:We go back the week after.
Speaker B:And I think that will help that ease and flow.
Speaker B:I mean, next year, I've got another big Year, aren't I?
Speaker B:Because we've got college and stuff.
Speaker B:But, yeah, the whole emotional makeup in mothers probably hasn't been studied enough because women don't get studied enough anyway.
Speaker B:But it's so real.
Speaker B:Like, it's as real as having my leg cut off at times.
Speaker B:Like, it feels.
Speaker B:So there's.
Speaker B:Again, I'm speaking from my lived experience, not for everyone else, but I've lived in corporate for so long that I.
Speaker B:Corporate doesn't allow these emotions, like, you've just got to go with the day and do what you did yesterday, but better.
Speaker B:And there is no space for that.
Speaker B:There's no time for.
Speaker B:Actually, I want to just cry today because my child's okay.
Speaker A:Like, even just the.
Speaker A:Them being away from you.
Speaker A:Like, you know, I have this with my.
Speaker A:My oldest child obviously goes to his dad 50% of the time.
Speaker A:You know, he's going to be six in January.
Speaker A:So I've been at this for a lot, a long time.
Speaker A:And it's still every single time I have to hand him off.
Speaker A:It's taking a punch to the gut every single time.
Speaker A:And I forget sometimes I need to allow myself space for that, you know, like, no, you probably can't just drop him off at school knowing you're not going to see him for another five days and then just like trot home, get a coffee, and get stuck into work straight away at 9am just a little bit of a buffer zone, I think, is what we need.
Speaker A:And I think we carry over from corporate or from traditional working life that idea of there's not really any space for emotional fluidity.
Speaker A:There's not really any space for the kind of ups and downs that we just go through, through each month as women, but also just through each day.
Speaker A:Like I say to Todd sometimes, and he laughs at me, I'm like, sometimes I can experience like five or six emotions in the space of five minutes.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker A:And we don't give ourselves any space or any grace for that.
Speaker A:Particularly when we're doing things like, you know, letting go of our children who we have to hold so close, and then they reach a certain age and we have to let go of them.
Speaker A:And it is.
Speaker A:It's painful.
Speaker A:And I think that just even building in a little bit of time for that, even if it's just a little soft, you know, half an hour, okay, we've dropped them, they've gone to the train station, or they've been dropped at school and their dad's gonna pick them up.
Speaker A:Take a little half an hour to just feel your emotions, have a warm drink, sit with yourself for a minute, and then be like, okay, now what do I need to do for work those fringe little time slots for ourselves to just ease from one transition to the other instead of just expecting ourselves to power through everything without acknowledging those emotions.
Speaker A:Particularly as women working and in business, I think that's super important to try and put in place for ourselves because nobody else is going to do it for us.
Speaker B:But those micro moments are the moments, but they are.
Speaker B:It's like a reset.
Speaker B:It's a big breath in and a big breath out.
Speaker B:I say out, let it out.
Speaker B:Whatever that emotion is that's in your body, but also feel it.
Speaker B:If we don't feel those emotions as they rise, we suppress them and they'll come out in another way.
Speaker B:Maybe later that day, but maybe years later.
Speaker B:Allowing yourself to feel it in the moment is.
Speaker B:It passes within 90 seconds.
Speaker B:I learned, apparently.
Speaker A:Is that all I. I feel like mine lost much longer.
Speaker B:That's because you're not Feeling it when it first arrives.
Speaker B:So an emotion lasts 90 seconds if you allow yourself to feel it fully, to sit with it, it's easy said than done.
Speaker B:And I think when you're trying to drop children off and then get back to the office and then log on and then do the work, you haven't had 90 seconds to feel it and then the feeling's gone.
Speaker B:And then actually it is a much bigger emotion when it rises again because you've still not felt it.
Speaker B:But one thing that one of my coaches my year is big on is doing everything slower.
Speaker B:So she'll say, like this week, do everything 5% slower, just take a bit more time.
Speaker B:So instead of rushing, putting everyone's breakfast into the bowls, do that 5% slower.
Speaker B:And what you actually find is it takes less time because you haven't spilled the milk, you haven't knocked something over because you're going so fast.
Speaker B:You haven't forgotten something you needed because you've just taken 5% more time to remember what you need to take out of the house with you.
Speaker B:It actually saves time.
Speaker B:So that's something I've been trying to do this September is go even slower.
Speaker B:And I mean, I've been trying to do the soul life for a while now, so it's not brand, brand new to me.
Speaker B:I say no a lot to a lot of things because I understand my bandwidths much more than I did five years ago.
Speaker B:But yeah, 5% still life.
Speaker B:Yeah, I love dying S. To be fair, we have so much stuff coming up this next quarter that I'm already looking at my diary.
Speaker B:I'm like, what can I say no to or over.
Speaker B:Scheduled to be many things.
Speaker A:Yeah, I feel like that, like the first couple of weeks of September, it's like everyone's been radio silent for the whole of August and then everyone piles in and everything needs.
Speaker A:Everybody needs things now.
Speaker A:And saying no.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm, I'm working on that one as well.
Speaker A:I'm not great at it.
Speaker A:My husband's excellent at it.
Speaker A:So I try and like, take a little bit of a leaf out of his book.
Speaker A:He'll literally just be like, no, I'm not going to do that.
Speaker A:He doesn't even feel the need to qualify.
Speaker B:I love it about him.
Speaker A:People will be like, do you want to come to this?
Speaker A:You know, whatever the event is?
Speaker A:And he's just like, no, I don't want to do that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But I'm trying really hard to like, let that inspire my, you know, move out of people pleasing behavior and do something Similar.
Speaker A:And yeah, also with work, September is always very, very busy for me because it's one of those periods where everyone's been on holiday all summer or doing whatever they're doing, and then they come back and they're like, oh, okay, we want to launch the website, like next week.
Speaker A:So again, a previous version of me, who was newer in running my own business, used to get very, very anxious and panicked about that and feel under.
Speaker B:A lot of pressure to deliver.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Something I've worked really hard on is sort of, you know, being able to sit in my own kind of understanding of, well, no, that's not really reasonable.
Speaker A:And it is reasonable for you to say, no, we can't do that, but here is what we can do.
Speaker A:So I suppose that's a version, isn't it, of trying to slow down rather than rushing to meet everybody's demands without stopping to think whether or not they're actually reasonable or what they're going to mean for me, really sort of trying to be brave enough to say to clients, no, I'm sorry, I'm not able to do that for you, but here is what I can do.
Speaker B:And I also think it's not necessarily the reasonableness either.
Speaker B:It could be a perfectly reasonable request.
Speaker B:But if you don't want to do it, you can still say no.
Speaker B:Like, even if it is a reasonable or if you don't have the capacity to do it, we can still say no.
Speaker B:Like, we have agency all for ourselves.
Speaker B:And I think it's one of these things that's been fed to us for years and years and years is that if we don't meet everyone's needs, we're gonna be penniless.
Speaker B:And if we don't do what the big boss says, we're not gonna have a job.
Speaker B:They're gonna take it from us.
Speaker B:In one regard, yeah, that's true.
Speaker B:But also, there's plenty of other people that will give us money and value our skill set.
Speaker B:So don't de.
Speaker B:Bullied by other people's expectations is one thing.
Speaker B:I'm still learning as well, by the way.
Speaker B:Like, I'm saying this, like I have this all.
Speaker B:All sort of insecurities, I do know.
Speaker B:But I had quite a lot of new people into my life in the last two or three years.
Speaker B:I don't think it's any coincidence in the fact that I'd be doing a lot of work on the burnout and all that kind of.
Speaker B:Anyway, this friend has become one of my closest friends.
Speaker B:And she said to me, really out the blue I love having you as a friend.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, really?
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:And she's like, you just saw easy.
Speaker B:Like, if you say no, I know you mean no.
Speaker B:And if you say yes, I know you mean yes.
Speaker B:Because if you didn't mean yes, you'd have said no.
Speaker B:I just find that so easy.
Speaker B:It's like, I just know where I stand with you.
Speaker B:I don't have to guess.
Speaker B:I don't have to feel like, oh, she's only saying, yeah, because that's what I want.
Speaker B:Because I know that if you didn't, you just said no.
Speaker B:And that evidence just really helped me continue saying no to things I don't want because I feel like, oh, I'm making their lives easier, actually, because they know where they stand with me.
Speaker B:And she told me I was a great friend for doing it, so.
Speaker A:Hundred percent.
Speaker A:We think fawning is what other people need from us, but actually what creates safety is just telling the truth and saying what you mean.
Speaker A:I mean, you just said that you.
Speaker B:Love your husband because of how many nos he says.
Speaker B:And actually.
Speaker B:Yeah, and he's a very safe side.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's another one.
Speaker A:He says, exactly.
Speaker A:If he says something, I know that's what he means.
Speaker A:There's no kind of hidden agenda.
Speaker A:There's no, you know, he just says, no, I don't want to do that.
Speaker B:And I'm like, okay, cool.
Speaker A:I don't have to worry that he's secretly mad at me or any of that stuff.
Speaker A:And it creates safety.
Speaker B:So much safety.
Speaker B:I'm gonna have a look at my calendar after this and see what I can say no to.
Speaker B:The idea is to say no before it's in your calendar.
Speaker B:That would be the nice thing to do.
Speaker B:So, you know, before it's in your calendars, you don't have to then go back and go, actually, I can't do that thing anymore.
Speaker A:What's that saying, it's better to disappoint.
Speaker B:Other people than to disappoint yourself.
Speaker B:Always love that.
Speaker B:I love that too.
Speaker B:What we're going to do different for our summers next year.
Speaker A:Well, we've established that we do things 5% slower.
Speaker A:We've established that we are not going back to work until the second week of September because we are having a nice little week built in of emotional collapse before we try and put ourselves back into productive mode and we are letting go of unrealistic expectations of ourselves.
Speaker A:We're going to embrace smaller moments and just try and make things more intentional.
Speaker A:I think when you said ease and peace, Those are the two things.
Speaker A:And that's what I always want to try and create.
Speaker A:But particularly in the summer, I really struggle with putting a lot of pressure on myself.
Speaker A:It's something like, I just, I call it, it's part of eldest daughter syndrome and it just is through everything.
Speaker A:It's something that I constantly work on and I really have to work very hard to let go of the idea that I should, should be taking the kids on some ridiculously elaborate holiday or making every social arrangement that people want to do those sort of things.
Speaker A:I have to consciously work towards saying no and recognizing that it being simple is fine.
Speaker A:So this summer I've tried really hard not to overbookers and I didn't book very much stuff in.
Speaker A:I think last summer I was sort of, you know, booking activity days and days out and all this sort of thing and I've just kind of pulled right back on it.
Speaker A:So I think next summer I would even try and take it a little bit further and try for something that's very unscheduled and just allows for lots of pottering and spontaneous little park picnics and things like that because that removes a lot of the stress and the haste as well because I'm not frantically running around trying to pack or organize or meet people for certain times.
Speaker A:So I think more of that probably next year.
Speaker B:Definitely fad.
Speaker B:Since the law, I'm going to try and not have much client work next year.
Speaker B:Like I would like a summer and literally be able to go with the flow and not have to do much client work.
Speaker B:Which to be fair, we put that on the board.
Speaker B:So we did a strategy day for our business on one day last week.
Speaker B:And that's when I thought that we need an employee for next summer so then we can be with our children.
Speaker B:We can be in that season of being rather than doing, but still meet the needs of our clients by having an employee that can meet those needs.
Speaker B:And our thing next year is that we won't have a, a player that we can do the client stuff.
Speaker B:And I think the other thing we keep contemplating going away for the summer like Portugal or getting an Airbnb like on a, on a month to six weeks lease.
Speaker B:And we still really want to do that.
Speaker B:The issue is our children are so big that they really need their friends and the socialization.
Speaker B:So it's finding a space where they will make friends quickly because we're going to be taking them away from their home friends.
Speaker B:So yeah, we're still juggling that at the minute.
Speaker B:We're trying to work out whether we can do that with a 13 and 16 year old or whether that is just going to be a disaster.
Speaker B:But one of the reasons of going away, we'll do the same at Christmas is if we're not there, we can't be over scheduled by.
Speaker B:I suppose it is a bit of running away but we literally go where other outside influences can't penetrate us.
Speaker B:So then we have to connect as a family unit and we just find that really beneficial to us to have that deep connection time away from our normal day to day life.
Speaker B:So yeah, that's what we're thinking of doing next year.
Speaker B:But we'll see.
Speaker B:We will see whether we pull that off or not.
Speaker A:You love that idea.
Speaker A:I love that idea.
Speaker A:I think in an ideal world what I would love to do is to be able to take the summer off or at least most of it.
Speaker A:You know, like I'm a designer, most of my clients are off for the summer anyway as well.
Speaker A:So that I think that would be my ideal.
Speaker A:But you said that you were thinking about putting together a bit of a buffer like pot of money to be able to do that.
Speaker A:I think that's something that I need to put in place for sure.
Speaker A:I think that'd be a really good thing to just start putting some aside so that there is that little bit of flexibility there and there's that little bit of a, of a safety net.
Speaker B:We will work on that.
Speaker B:Like people talk about safety nets and buffers and having a part and whatever other analogy you want.
Speaker B:There's a lot of talk about getting like six figure months or six figure years or seven figure businesses or whatever other art.
Speaker B:I can't say that word number that people put all over marketing.
Speaker B:But actually the wealth and the freedom comes from having enough money in your bank that you can say do you know what?
Speaker B:I'm not working today.
Speaker B:That is the freedom.
Speaker B:And that doesn't have to be a million pounds.
Speaker B:If your lifestyle does not cost a million pounds like the ability to have that is much closer than a lot of people realize.
Speaker B:And that is because of the fear that is around money in a lot of society.
Speaker B:But it's a lot closer.
Speaker B:You don't need a million pounds in the bank to have the freedom to say I'm not working in August.
Speaker B:You just need to have enough to be able to meet the needs of your family and your lifestyle and also have the capacity to get back into work.
Speaker B:I think that's hard a bit where you've taken some time off.
Speaker B:If you're not used to doing that.
Speaker B:It's the easing back into work.
Speaker B:Like, it's not, oh, I've had August off and now I'm back.
Speaker B:You will find that emotions rise and you can't actually get to 100 miles an hour straight away.
Speaker B:So you probably need more of a buffer than what you think.
Speaker B:If you're taking a month off, you probably need two months buffer because then you've got time to ease back in without it being a rush, because otherwise it is pointless taking the time off.
Speaker B:Your adrenaline will go straight back up straight away.
Speaker B:And you'd be like, what was even the point?
Speaker B:Because I'm already stressed.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, September soft launch.
Speaker A:That's what we're here for.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't know if it's the Virgo moon or whatever, because I have a Virgo moon.
Speaker B:I don't know if it's that energy that runs me, but absolutely adore the September back to school New Year energy.
Speaker B:Like, I live for it.
Speaker B:Me too.
Speaker B:I'm here for it.
Speaker B:I just find it really frustrating when my body's like, actually, no, we're going to cry today.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we're still doing it.
Speaker A:We're still buying the new stationery.
Speaker A:I love all of it.
Speaker A:I love new stationery.
Speaker A:I love when the air changes and it goes cold and sunny.
Speaker A:It's my favorite.
Speaker A:I absolutely adore it.
Speaker A:We're still doing it.
Speaker A:We're just doing it a week later.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Because we're gonna cry first and we're gonna drink cow and we're just gonna be.
Speaker B:We're gonna be in that season of being in that first week and then.
Speaker B:Then we're gonna do it.
Speaker A:And then we're back to school with our new pencil cases.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:After we felt our feelings.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And had a big group hug.
Speaker B:And Dad's been invited too, by the way, obviously, because I feel like dads and partners.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Get left out of some of the marketing.
Speaker B:Everyone's like, oh, Mum's back to school to get the time back.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, what about the dads?
Speaker B:But dads have also done this juggle.
Speaker B:I would not have done any client work this summer if it was not for Kieran.
Speaker B:Like, he.
Speaker B:He is the backbone in our family for sure.
Speaker B:So I'm here for the dads, too.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:They can come to the spa and drink the cacao.
Speaker A:Cry under the duvets with us.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:You're all invited.
Speaker A:Everyone's invited.
Speaker B:As long as you're not a dick.
Speaker A:Then you can't sit with us.
Speaker A:We've got a plan.
Speaker B:Plan's done.
Speaker B:Spa day.
Speaker B:Has anyone got any recommendations?
Speaker B:Spas hit us up.
Speaker A:Otherwise, we'll see you next time.
Speaker B:This is with both hands, Sa.
