The Realities of Christmas: Balancing Joy and Expectations
In this episode of With Both Hands, we examine the quiet pressures that build during the holiday season, particularly for mothers who carry the weight of both family expectations and wider societal narratives. Christmas is often framed as a time of joy, yet for many it brings overwhelm, exhaustion, and the sense of having to hold everything together while trying to keep everyone happy.
Expect reflections on the emotional labour that intensifies in December, the loneliness that can sit beneath the surface, and the tension between genuine connection and the consumerism that so often dominates the season. We explore what it looks like to step back from the performance of a “perfect Christmas” and move towards something rooted in intention, presence and personal values.
This episode invites listeners to ease the pressure, rewrite old narratives and create a holiday experience that feels more honest, humane and grounded.
---
Connect with us both on Instagram
@laura.hadcroft, @clarethorpe_ and @withboth_hands
---
Transcript
I've forgotten how we're starting it.
Speaker A:How do we start?
Speaker B:Welcome to With Both Hands.
Speaker B:I'm Claire.
Speaker A:And I'm Laura and we're team.
Speaker A:Shall we do that again?
Speaker B:I messed up.
Speaker B:Okay, you do it.
Speaker B:You do it.
Speaker A:You want me to start?
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Hi, welcome to With Both Hands.
Speaker B:I'm Claire.
Speaker A:And I'm Laura.
Speaker A:And we're two mums that met on the Internet.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I know we all said that our first series was done and first series was done.
Speaker A:We are done them six episodes out and they're in.
Speaker A:In the Internet sphere.
Speaker A:But we thought we'd treat you to a Christmas special, mainly because this time of year is hard for a lot of people, and in particular us mums, business owners.
Speaker A:Everyone seems to be hard deadlines of Christmas and we kind of wanted to bring something to you that says you're seen, you're heard, and we're in this with you.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Think of us as your Christmas elves.
Speaker B:Just here to sprinkle a little bit of sanity and realism into the Christmas madness and solidarity.
Speaker B:More importantly than everything else.
Speaker B:For anyone wondering why I sound like a frog today, that would be because I have spent the last week and a half in the trenches of all of the various viral illnesses that my children have brought home with them, which is super fun.
Speaker B:I'm sure everyone's familiar with the viral carousel.
Speaker B:So we've all been sick.
Speaker B:Me, my husband, my son, my daughter.
Speaker B:My son is currently on his second round, so he'd got better, we'd all got ill, and now he's ill again, so we're in for round two.
Speaker B:So I spent the last week in a.
Speaker B:In a hole of sort of ill children trying to take care of ill.
Speaker B:Particularly an ill toddler, when you have some kind of viral flu yourself, I think is a specific kind of hell which only parents know about.
Speaker B:That's where I've been for the past week and a half.
Speaker B:So what always comes to me when stuff like that happens is it's.
Speaker B:We talk about it a lot.
Speaker B:It's kind of when we talk about flow, obviously we've debunked balance as a nonsense, but when we talk about kind of finding flow and holding all these different things that we hold and how we kind of navigate that.
Speaker B:I'm always struck when stuff like this happens, how the world becomes very small very quickly and how quickly a lot of those other things actually just fall away because you are forced into a position where you have to focus all of your energy on one thing.
Speaker B:You know, if you've Got two ill children and you're ill, there is really no navigating a way through that.
Speaker B:You're just kind of forced into a surrender situation where it's just, we are just in survival mode.
Speaker B:And how do we kind of get everybody through this week?
Speaker B:You know, client deadlines kind of have to take a backseat, I usually find.
Speaker B:And certainly all the other organizational stuff just goes completely out the window.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I've been in a sort of bubble of kids, TV and tissues on the sofa for the past week and a half.
Speaker A:There's also something really magic about it, isn't there?
Speaker A:Like when your kids are ill and you do get to just sit on the sofa and cuddle them.
Speaker A:I definitely romanticize this because my 15 year old's video this week as well.
Speaker A:He's got some kind of virus, but he doesn't want cuddles on the sofa with his mum.
Speaker A:Like, he doesn't want them anymore.
Speaker A:So when the five year old does, I'm like, yes, love that you're ill and still want cuddles.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I definitely romanticize those viruses.
Speaker A:Although I do remember the time we had chickenpox in the house and I feel like we had it for like eight weeks because like one child got it and it scabbed and they were allowed back into the wild and then the next child got it and it was like it was just in this cycle of someone not really being allowed outside or allowed to see anyone that was pregnant because chickenpox.
Speaker A:And that was tough.
Speaker A:Like I felt like we had like two months where we couldn't quite operate as a actual family in the outside world.
Speaker B:I think it's fine when you're not ill.
Speaker B:If they're ill and you're not, then it's a lot easier when everybody's ill because as the mums, we don't just get to go to bed, do we?
Speaker B:We don't just get to go and have a lie down and get ourselves better.
Speaker B:We have to kind of get everybody else better and crack on.
Speaker A:To be fair, if C ever does listen to this podcast, it's a running joke.
Speaker A:Our husbands haven't listened to this podcast for some unbeknown reason.
Speaker A:But if it did ever, he would be furious if I said I don't get slowed down because he does actually nurse me really well when I'm ill.
Speaker A:I don't nurse him in the same sphere.
Speaker A:I have nowhere near as much empathy towards him as he does towards me.
Speaker A:But I also think because right now, as I said, there's Something in my body.
Speaker A:I've definitely got a virus of some description.
Speaker A:I don't feel ill yet.
Speaker A:I just feel like there's.
Speaker A:My body's fighting something.
Speaker A:And I hope it doesn't get to the full illness thing, but I'm also years ahead of you with these childhood illnesses.
Speaker A:Like, my eldest is 16.
Speaker A:Lisa.
Speaker A:We've been doing this for a long time.
Speaker A:My body has immunity of fucking steel.
Speaker A:I was gonna say, you must be like a tank.
Speaker A:I can feel it in my body.
Speaker A:So because of that, I will be doing things today to try and make myself not get the full rafts.
Speaker A:I'll be making sure I get outside, making sure I take lemon water.
Speaker A:You know, like, just looking after my body because I know it's not feeling great, as Kevin will just let it go and then he'll be like, I'm really ill. Yeah, but you could.
Speaker A:There was things we could have been doing.
Speaker A:There was things we could have been doing.
Speaker A:I always get frustrated, but he does.
Speaker A:When I do get sick, he does really nurse me really well.
Speaker A:And I do not nurse him with the same empathy.
Speaker B:We're kind of the other way around.
Speaker B:And actually, I think my nursing is irritating, if anything, to Todd, because he's kind of like, just leave me.
Speaker B:Just leave me to get better on my own.
Speaker B:I'm a grown man and I'm like, that's fair.
Speaker B:That is fair.
Speaker B:And I'm very much like, you know, trying to bring him hot drinks and things.
Speaker B:And he's like, I just.
Speaker B:I really just want to be left alone.
Speaker B:And I'm like, but let me.
Speaker A:Let me.
Speaker B:Let me look after you.
Speaker B:I need to learn to listen better.
Speaker A:Don't we all?
Speaker B:100%.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I think that it's one of those where, you know, it really highlights all the things that we talk about all the time.
Speaker B:The surrender, the accepting that things don't look how you think they're going to look, accepting that, you know, sometimes you just have to let go and go with the flow a little bit.
Speaker B:And this always happens.
Speaker B:You know, we're in sickness season.
Speaker B:We are in flu season.
Speaker B:I just got a text from one of the mums at my little boy's school, and there are 10 children in his class off today, including him.
Speaker B:And it's a class of 19, so it's.
Speaker B:Half of his class are off.
Speaker B:You know, we're in the season and it's directly leading into Christmas.
Speaker B:So again, with the kind of push towards Christmas and the pressure we put ourselves under, you know, it's a bit of a reminder that, like, you can put all these things in place and.
Speaker A:You can push and push and push.
Speaker B:And fill the diary, but you might also be struck down with some kind of viral plague three weeks before Christmas, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.
Speaker A:Wow, that was cheerful.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:Merry Christmas, everyone.
Speaker B:I told you, we're coming with a sprinkle of realism.
Speaker B:That's what we're here for.
Speaker A:Okay, can I talk to you about a storytelling thing I went to the other week?
Speaker B:Please, I would love to hear about it.
Speaker B:Yes, please.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:This will sound like a tedious link, but it actually all ties into Christmas, and I wasn't actually prepared for it.
Speaker A:Early November, I got home after a day with a client, actually, and I was absolutely exhausted.
Speaker A:Do you know when you walk in and then all the kids want you.
Speaker A:Tea's not quite ready.
Speaker A:Your kitchen looks like an absolute bomb site, but you are drained to your core.
Speaker A:And I had this thing that I was meant to be going to, and it was raining, and it was that storm.
Speaker A:Was it like storm Amy or Claudia or something that we had, like.
Speaker A:It was basically.
Speaker A:It was horrific outside and I'd got in and I had this thing in the diary that I was meant to be going to with a friend at the football club.
Speaker A:And I literally.
Speaker A:I remember standing in my kitchen going, do I go to that?
Speaker A:Actually, all I want to do is sit on my sofa.
Speaker A:And then I had this, like, talk to myself.
Speaker A:I could sit on my sofa and scroll the Internet, or I could go and sit in a room and consume some content that isn't on the Internet.
Speaker A:Both saying, one just needed me to, like, get out of the house.
Speaker A:Anyway, adultly decided that consuming content from a professor from Oxford University was a more valuable use of my time than sitting on the sofa.
Speaker A:Scrolling Instagram.
Speaker A:So that's what I did.
Speaker A:I got redressed and left my house.
Speaker A:Kitchen was still a bomb site.
Speaker A:Kids were still being children.
Speaker A:But I left and I went to this talk, and I'm so glad I did because I learned so much.
Speaker A:She's an Oxford professor.
Speaker A:So this is Professor Diane Purkis, and she is a professor of English, I believe, at Oxford.
Speaker A:I might have got that wrong.
Speaker A:If I have, I am.
Speaker A:I'm sorry.
Speaker A:But she was doing a talk on folklore and feminism.
Speaker A:Now, these are two things that I absolutely adore.
Speaker A:One, I love, love empowering women and to absolutely love stories, particularly ones that involve fairies and witches.
Speaker A:And I was really intrigued, actually, on what folklore feminism had in common.
Speaker A:And there were loads of talking points that came out of this talk, which I'm not going to dive into today because it's going to be a podcast episode on its own.
Speaker A:And I'm really hopeful that we can get Diane in.
Speaker A:That would be the dream.
Speaker A:But there was one section of it that was about Christmas and folklore, and it really ran true.
Speaker A:Like, I sat there absorbing it like a sponge.
Speaker A:It helped me sort some thoughts out in my head.
Speaker A:So Christmas is always really tricky for me.
Speaker A:I have lost people in my life.
Speaker A:That means that the picture perfect Christmas that's on every TV advert just doesn't exist in my world.
Speaker A:No matter how hard I try, I will never create that perfect Christmas because there's people who I really wish were still here.
Speaker A:They died.
Speaker A:Like, they're not here.
Speaker A:So no matter how much I try and recreate that magic, it's not there.
Speaker A:This is always, like, sat heavy because I'm trying to create the magic for my children whilst also struggling myself.
Speaker A:And this professor just managed really eloquently to explain why some of those things feel so alien to me.
Speaker A:And the stories that we've been telling each other for the last short amount of time, actually probably 30 to 50 years, are actually shaping our Christmases now, which aren't actually that helpful.
Speaker A:Yeah, I wanted to come and discuss it here on this Christmas special because I just think it's really prevalent.
Speaker A:So the first thing that blew my mind was Father Christmas.
Speaker A:Now, I think we all know that Father Christmas, the modern day Father Christmas.
Speaker A:And I probably should put a spoiler here now, if you're listening with children in the car, maybe turn me off now and come back to it when your children are not there.
Speaker A:I'll give you a minute before I read the Christmas magic for everybody.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Hopefully no children.
Speaker A:Father Christmas as we know him now was created by Coca Cola.
Speaker A:I think in the 50s or mid last century.
Speaker A:That's when he got his red coat.
Speaker A:It was a Coca Cola thing to try and sell Mel Coca Cola.
Speaker A:And that is our current day for our Christmas.
Speaker A:Before that, we knew he went more green.
Speaker A:Before that he was sent Nick.
Speaker A:But actually the origins of this Christmas figure that created safety, like, that's kind of the story that Father Christmas comes and he creates this safety for our houses.
Speaker A:It's in the depth of winter.
Speaker A:When it's cold, it's dark.
Speaker A:And this person comes in and protects us from that thing.
Speaker A:And now obviously we have gifts that also mean that we all feel great about the fact that we're in the depths of winter.
Speaker A:Was Actually a woman.
Speaker A:It was a woman figure with power over household spirits.
Speaker A:And she kept these spirits away at the middle of winter.
Speaker A:And then all the time this is morphed into this Father Christmas.
Speaker A:And if you think about that story, like we accurately telling the story that a man comes down a chimney covered in soot to give us presents and we're okay about it.
Speaker A:Like, we're okay about men coming into our bedrooms, leaving their stuff in our stockings and then leaving without a trace.
Speaker A:Like, when you actually think about the actual story that we're weaving into our everyday, it's actually quite a crazy story compared to there's a lady or woman that is protecting us from outside spirits in the depths of the deep, dark winter.
Speaker A:And I thought, this is so interesting that this story of protection has actually morphed into this story of obligation that we now have to provide gifts to keep this Christmas magic of Father Christmas coming in, giving gifts, it's now more an obligation than a protection.
Speaker A:And yeah, I had so many thoughts on it.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker B:I. I knew about the Coca Cola thing, but I had never heard before that the origin of the story was that it was a woman or that it was a protection story.
Speaker B:That's so, so interesting.
Speaker B:It doesn't surprise me because in our modern society we don't believe in spirits, largely.
Speaker B:A lot of us, we believe in consumerism.
Speaker B:So it makes perfect sense that the story's gone that way.
Speaker B:But I find it so interesting that that's morphed over time and taken on this kind of more patriarchal role and become Father Christmas and that the female element has been taken out of it.
Speaker B:I wonder why.
Speaker A:But it's been taken out for the story.
Speaker A:But actually the actions.
Speaker A:Who's still doing all the Christmas shopping?
Speaker A:Who's making sure that Christmas dinner's on the table?
Speaker A:Who's trying to create that whole picture perfect.
Speaker A:It's still the women's work, let's just say.
Speaker B:I'm sure there's exceptions.
Speaker B:I'm sure there's always exceptions.
Speaker B:But yes, predominantly, and for the most part, yes, it's women's work.
Speaker A:It's women's work with a male storyline.
Speaker A:The main character is a man.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But actually the people that are upholding this story.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Are women.
Speaker A:And that was something that this folkloreist professor said, was that a lot of these stories are actually upheld by women.
Speaker A:Like women continue the story even if we don't like it.
Speaker B:Well, probably even if we're not really thinking about it, because it just is, you know, it just is Father Christmas.
Speaker B:And at the end of the day, as mothers, we create that magic for our children.
Speaker B:We create the Christmas memories and put in place the traditions.
Speaker B:And so I think, obviously, we're not gonna go back to a situation in which Father Christmas doesn't exist and we celebrate a woman who wards off spirits in the depths of winter.
Speaker B:We're not going to go back to that world because that's not the world.
Speaker A:We live in anymore.
Speaker B:Imagine.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:But no.
Speaker B:So I think probably it's more about assessing what are the stories that we're perpetuating, or are we just kind of mindlessly perpetuating traditions that aren't ours?
Speaker B:And do we want to create new stories within our own families?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And actually, in our family, we've kind of stopped with a Father Christmas, if I'm honest.
Speaker A:He's still there because schools and it's very much within our society.
Speaker A:So it's not like I can't say, oh, that's not true.
Speaker A:There was a couple of instances over the last probably decade that have just really stuck with me.
Speaker A:I can't remember which one it was one of my older two, and I can't actually remember which one it was.
Speaker A:They will tell me when they listen to this podcast and say it was me, but they came home from school and said that they felt guilty about what they'd got at Christmas because other people hadn't got what they'd got and they didn't think they were better than them.
Speaker A:So obviously, this whole good, bad, you're like, this person is really good in class, and they didn't get what I got.
Speaker A:My kids felt guilty that they'd got more than this person in the class.
Speaker A:And that made me really reassess, like, what is this story doing?
Speaker A:Who I'm gifting this because it's this good and bad list.
Speaker A:And I am privileged enough to be able to provide for my children stuff that I never had as a child.
Speaker A:And because of that, I want to give it to them.
Speaker A:But actually, that's feeding me, not them.
Speaker A:But how do I explain that to them?
Speaker A:How do I now say, oh, actually, that's because I bought them presents without them saying on their parents or what, not as good, like, what.
Speaker A:What's the story there?
Speaker A:Like, how do I now navigate this?
Speaker A:From then, the narrative started to change in our house.
Speaker A:So the year after, Father Christmas brought one very small present, and the rest was from us or from family, like, and it was just like, whatever Father Christmas brought.
Speaker A:And now we kind of don't really mention Father Christmas on Christmas morning.
Speaker A:It's more, it is Christmas and these are our presents because of that from the outside world.
Speaker A:And also my kids are autistic so they're very literal in their understanding of the world.
Speaker A:And actually if I started.
Speaker A:And again we saw the pressures of what Christmas brought to an autistic child and the pressure of like saying that they like things or it's too much.
Speaker A:So we've really had to adapt our Christmas in line with our kids needs.
Speaker A:And over time we have kind of dropped the Father Christmas narrative in our house.
Speaker A:We still have Christmas magic but in a completely different way.
Speaker A:My 5 year old is very Christmas and Father Christmas maps this year I think because school.
Speaker A:But we don't, we don't say no, that's wrong.
Speaker A:Like I wouldn't call him out on it.
Speaker A:We just don't add to it.
Speaker A:So we're not constantly going on about Father Christmas.
Speaker A:We're not reading those five Christmas books.
Speaker A:We're more reading about family and those rituals that we want to bring in just because we're a family.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So that's a really simple way to kind of shift that narrative away a little bit and bring it back into the home and bring it back into family, isn't it?
Speaker B:Because yeah, it exists everywhere.
Speaker B:You can't really completely get rid of it.
Speaker B:But yeah, I mean, how good is that awareness though from your kids?
Speaker B:Like that kind of level of empathy and awareness that they have received more than.
Speaker B:But they can't kind of correlate that with a difference in behavior.
Speaker B:Because we do, don't we?
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:The idea is that if you're on the good list, you get lots of presents and Santa comes and if you're on the naughty list, he doesn't.
Speaker B:I mean I can't imagine there's a parent who's ever actually enforced this in reality.
Speaker B:Like if you're on the naughty list.
Speaker A:And I also think that comes back probably to the autism in my kids.
Speaker A:Like they're very rules based.
Speaker A:So naughty kids, good kids.
Speaker A:And then this kid is definitely a good kid.
Speaker A:Yeah, they didn't get all the presents I got.
Speaker A:So that rules broken.
Speaker A:So it's not always the empathy.
Speaker A:It's like that rule's broken, that's wrong.
Speaker A:The injustice.
Speaker A:But I've, yes, I've gained off that injustice.
Speaker A:But that still did not feel nice to my children, whichever one it was.
Speaker A:But again, this is the kids being mirrors where they come home and tell you something and it makes you reassess the entire life that you've believed to that point and you're like, oh my God, yes, I've never looked at it that way.
Speaker A:Thank you for holding that bully mirror up to me.
Speaker B:I think what's really important here is that you identified that whereas on the surface you're serving them, it's actually serving something in you.
Speaker B:And I think as parents we do this all the time and it's, it's so important to try and have a little bit of awareness around it because a lot of the time where we think that we're giving and serving them, what we're actually doing is serving ourselves in a way that's probably not that helpful to them.
Speaker B:It might, you know, feel good in the moment because they might get a gift or they might get, you know, something in that moment that feels good.
Speaker B:But long term, often I find that those things probably aren't that helpful.
Speaker B:And we've done a similar thing with my, my son.
Speaker B:So, I mean, my daughter is too little.
Speaker B:You know, she is not even two and this Christmas she won't even be two.
Speaker B:So she kind of is aware that there's something exciting happening and she likes fairy lights.
Speaker B:But in terms of understanding what it is, you know, she's not even there yet, so.
Speaker B:But my little boy, he's gonna be six in January, so he's kind of.
Speaker B:And I, he's very, very inquisitive and I feel like he's catching on a little bit and he's starting to question things.
Speaker B:And I'm a bit like, we're going to have to be careful here because things like, you know, you can go and see a different Santa every weekend from November.
Speaker B:Well, October now, apparently this year it's continental.
Speaker B:That's not going to fly.
Speaker B:You know, he's going to figure it out if Santa looks different every time we go and see him every weekend.
Speaker B:So for that reason, I've been assessing how much we actually do in the lead up to Christmas.
Speaker B:Also the fact that everything is now like £100, like just to go to a Santa's grotto or whatever, it's wild.
Speaker B:So for that reason, I've been trying to strip that back.
Speaker B:And yeah, that's also led me to kind of think, like, who is this for this day out?
Speaker B:Is this something that we actually want.
Speaker A:To do as a family?
Speaker B:Or is this something I feel like we have to do because as a good mum, you take your kid to do XYZ in the lead up to Christmas.
Speaker B:Is it that.
Speaker B:Is this voice coming from me or is this something else external that I'm responding to.
Speaker B:And I think in the past I've definitely just kind of done all the things and tried to do all the things and tried to feel like that's what being a good mum is.
Speaker B:But actually some of that was self serving and it was perpetuating narratives which aren't mine.
Speaker B:This is what good mums do.
Speaker B:And actually maybe it isn't.
Speaker B:Maybe there's lots and lots of different ways to be a good mum in the lead up to Christmas and maybe leaning more into what the child actually needs and your child as well, because all children are different.
Speaker B:So what does your child actually need?
Speaker B:For example?
Speaker B:My son gets overwhelmed quite easily.
Speaker B:He quite often needs timeouts from things like birthday parties or situations where there's a lot going on and it's very overstimulating in a sensory way.
Speaker B:He quite often needs to come back to me as a bit of a safe space and have a time out.
Speaker B:So, you know, winter wonderland.
Speaker B:While for some kids that might be the best thing ever, for my child probably not.
Speaker B:So maybe we don't do that and maybe that's okay.
Speaker A:I wholeheartedly agree.
Speaker A:We stopped doing these things that I wouldn't have a clue how much it cost for a center's goal because we've.
Speaker A:My younger two, I don't think I've ever been to one.
Speaker A:My older two did.
Speaker A:But again, when you start realizing that you've got autistic children, it's just they don't subscribe to that anyway.
Speaker A:And it's like what are we actually doing this for?
Speaker A:Everyone's stressed, there's loads of people crying and I've just paid a lot of money for this.
Speaker A:Like what?
Speaker A:But we have a Christmas tradition actually that Christmas Eve we go and get hot chocolate as a family.
Speaker A:Like we go and get hot chocolate and I usually get them new coloring books and we literally just sit and it self serves us all actually.
Speaker A:Like I feel it's that calm.
Speaker A:We have an hour that the lead up to Christmas has been hell on earth.
Speaker A:It's about to become even hellier with the whole Christmas Day families coming together debacle.
Speaker A:So that hour that we carve out on Christmas Eve where we have a hot chocolate, we sit in a coffee shop, they've always got like the jazz type Christmas songs on.
Speaker A:It just feels very calming for us.
Speaker A:Sometimes we have a walk just before.
Speaker A:That's about as commercial as we get because we, we just can't call all of us, none of us cope on the big commercial Things we have been to Outland, I suppose that was.
Speaker A: We went to that land in: Speaker A:It was absolutely magical.
Speaker A:I would recommend it because it is very traditional dog Emerald is extremely expensive, particularly when you get there.
Speaker A:But it's snow.
Speaker A:It's huskies.
Speaker A:I would not necessarily do what we did, which was the full Santa experience.
Speaker A:I'd maybe go on my own next time if we were to go again and, like, just be in Santa's grotto space, because it did feel very cozy and wintery and connected, which I think is what we're actually aiming for, is to feel connected to our kids and to our family and to our core values.
Speaker A:And if we're constantly doing things for the narrative or for social media, that isn't connecting to ourselves and our family and our core value.
Speaker A:And that's when we start feeling a bit stressed because we're just living completely unaligned to who we are.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that's what we're saying, isn't it?
Speaker B:It's about probably slowing down, reassessing, prioritising connection, prioritizing alignment, and making plans in line with that, rather than trying to do everything, which is a very easy trap to fall into, or just doing things that you've always done, because that's what you do without thinking about if that actually works or if that's actually what you want to do.
Speaker B:Here's a really simple example.
Speaker B:In my family, we've always had bacon sandwiches on Christmas morning.
Speaker B:And so this year, I've kind of gone.
Speaker B:I don't really like bacon sandwiches that much.
Speaker B:And we're gonna have a full Christmas dinner in the afternoon.
Speaker B:I don't want to start the day with a bacon sandwich.
Speaker B:And it's like, maybe.
Speaker B:Maybe I make something else.
Speaker B:Like, this is a.
Speaker B:This is like a revelation.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:Wild.
Speaker B:But it's just a really simple example of where I've just been doing something, because that's what my parents did.
Speaker B:And I haven't thought about the fact that actually, this is.
Speaker B:This is my family, and I get to.
Speaker B:I get to make those rules, and I can change those rules if I want to.
Speaker B:And I imagine that that's something that a lot of people fall into again, perpetuating traditions that maybe aren't yours and aren't for your family.
Speaker B:And it's okay to, like, question that and change them and do things differently if it doesn't work.
Speaker B:You know, I don't want to be in the kitchen grilling bacon on Christmas morning.
Speaker B:I want to be sat with my kids under the tree.
Speaker B:I want to get some pastries and be like, there you go.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:This last week I was introduced by one of my friends.
Speaker A:Shout out to savory croissants.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:Oh, they've changed my life.
Speaker B:Oh, I love a savory croissant.
Speaker A:A brie and figs on Christmas morning for my breakfast.
Speaker A:Yes, please.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:That is now why I want this Christmas 100%.
Speaker A:That whole choosing thing, like you've got your traditions of your family that you have for your parents or whatever.
Speaker A:But I also think there's other places where we can choose.
Speaker A:I've had teams for as long as I can remember now actually, and this time of year always feels so stressful.
Speaker A:So I'm an accountant.
Speaker A:It's year end for a lot of businesses in 31st December.
Speaker A:So as everyone else is like winding down for Christmas, my profession is actually gearing up.
Speaker A:We have year end targets that everyone wants.
Speaker A:We've got bonuses, we've got Christmas to try and get all the targets done.
Speaker A:We have a budget for the next financial year being finalized.
Speaker A:January, we've got all the reporting to do, plus year end tax returns.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So this part of the year is probably one of the most stressful parts of a year for anyone in finance.
Speaker A:Then you've got schools who think that this is a great time to add every little change that could possibly change into everyone's timetable.
Speaker A:Numerous trips to panto this, panto that, some non uniform days because they're raising money for whatever they're raising money for.
Speaker A:We might have some Christmas boxes that we've got to fill with toys for less fortunate children.
Speaker A:You've got kids that are overstimulated because not only are they learning all the things, they're now doing a full nativity production and they want to do really well on that.
Speaker A:So they coming home singing lots of songs out of tune and then we've got to keep Christmas and keep it feeling magical and actually that's a lot for any one person, plus all the dates and everything else that we've got to do.
Speaker A:So it's not just like your Christmas Day and Christmas lead up traditions in your family, but it's also what are we doing in our wider selves in this period and what can we actually choose to say?
Speaker A:No, I'm not doing that anymore actually.
Speaker A:That isn't serving for me to do that.
Speaker A:I think you do really well in saying no to things like I'm just getting there.
Speaker A:And my eldest is like nearly 16, so I feel like Claire has managed to get to this point much sooner than I ever did.
Speaker A:And I'm interested in.
Speaker A:To know, like, how do you make those decisions?
Speaker A:Like, how do you.
Speaker A:How are you so aware that this does not serve me so therefore, absolutely not.
Speaker A:We're not doing that.
Speaker B:There's two parts, I think, that I've.
Speaker B:I've done a lot of therapy, and I've done.
Speaker B:I've put a lot of thought into.
Speaker B:What are my actual values?
Speaker B:What are the things that I really, really value, what's important to me?
Speaker B:And I have put a lot of work into reaching a place where I feel like I can.
Speaker B:They're a touch point which I can quite easily put my hand on.
Speaker B:And I try really, really hard.
Speaker B:I fail at it all the time, every single day, but I try really, really hard to assess every.
Speaker B:You probably call it overthinking, to be honest, in a lot of circumstances.
Speaker B:But even small decisions, when it comes to how we're building and running this family, and this is Todd and myself, we try and bring everything back to those values, Even decisions that might seem minute and nothing to do with that.
Speaker B:It's like, how do we actually want to do this?
Speaker B:And I've always been terrible at saying no.
Speaker B:And a lot of my current progress in that area is definitely, definitely down to Todd, because he's excellent at it.
Speaker B:And he will just literally be like, I'm not doing that because I don't want to.
Speaker B:And he doesn't really feel any need to qualify.
Speaker B:He doesn't feel any need to explain honestly.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker B:He will just be like, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm not going to do that.
Speaker B:And so I. I'm learning a lot from him in that area.
Speaker B:I'm trying really hard to be, you.
Speaker A:Know, and how safe does that make you feel?
Speaker A:Like, when he's like, no, I'm not doing that, does that make you feel safe or unsafe?
Speaker B:Definitely safe, because he says what he means.
Speaker B:The two of us together, he's very grounding.
Speaker B:And I tend to have big, wild ideas which can be great.
Speaker B:You know, I'm the kind of slightly chaotic, more creative one.
Speaker B:And I'll be like, we're going to do this.
Speaker B:And sometimes it is a good idea.
Speaker B:I'm just going too overboard.
Speaker B:And so he's sort of down here as the anchor being like, okay, maybe we don't need to do all of those things in one morning.
Speaker B:Maybe we can, you know, take the essence of the idea that you want to do and what is that magic you're trying to create?
Speaker B:And let's like maybe just bring it down, I don't know, like 10 pegs.
Speaker B:Pull it into something that's not going to create everyone a load of stress and chaos and cost a lot of money.
Speaker B:And, you know, and so he's very good at kind of grounding me in that way and bringing that down, which is very, very safe.
Speaker B:And also he says what he means.
Speaker B:So if I say I want to do this and he says, yeah, I'm not going to do that, you know, that's much safer to me than, okay, we'll do it your way and going along with it.
Speaker B:And then we get there and he's obviously pissed off and we fall into passive aggressive behaviors and all the rest of it because we're not communicating.
Speaker B:So the clear communication, super duper safe.
Speaker A:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker A:I'm getting better with my nose.
Speaker A:And I had a. I think I might have mentioned this before on the podcast, but I had a new friend tell me that she loves being my friend because she knows where I stand with me.
Speaker A:And that was really helpful for me to continue.
Speaker A:That feedback of her saying that to me made it easier for me to continue that behavior.
Speaker A:I think sometimes you feel scared that you're going to say no and then everyone's going to hate you and you're not going to have any friends anymore.
Speaker A:And whatever else, whatever stories that you tell yourself is the reason why you can't possibly say no to this thing.
Speaker A:And actually what I've learned is the more nos I say, the more people feel safer in my sphere because they know what I say is what I mean.
Speaker A:I'm not going to put myself in a situation that I don't want to be in.
Speaker A:So therefore, if I'm there, it's because I actually want to be there.
Speaker A:It's not necessarily that I don't want to spend time with you.
Speaker A:It's just that actually this week I've prioritized other things and I haven't prioritized our friendship.
Speaker A:That doesn't necessarily mean that I don't want to be friends with you anymore.
Speaker A:It just means that I have a million and ten other things that I'm doing and you just weren't quite the priority this week.
Speaker A:And actually I'm okay with that.
Speaker A:Like I'm okay not being at the top of my friend's priority list every week because we've all got shit going on and we've all got businesses to run or careers to uphold, families to deal with.
Speaker A:If you got neurodivergent or special educational need Children, you've got shitloads of reports of admin to do around that.
Speaker A:Plus a child that isn't coping the way other children cope, which is a whole thing on itself.
Speaker A:So then to have friends that are actually okay, you don't want to come and do this reef making.
Speaker A:Fine.
Speaker A:But actually that is fine, right?
Speaker A:It's an, it's not a passive aggressive fine.
Speaker A:It's like okay, she's got enough on.
Speaker A:That's, that's okay.
Speaker A:And I am very good with my nose with school.
Speaker A:I think that's something that I have learned probably the hard way.
Speaker A:But I still see friends constantly pushing themselves into burnout to uphold the pressure that schools put on us.
Speaker A:And yeah, we say no.
Speaker A:And I was really proud of the school that my little boys go to.
Speaker A:I think it was last week or the week before it was school photo day and my 8 year old did not want his photo taken.
Speaker A:And I being a crap mum on that morning forgot to tell school.
Speaker A:I completely forgot to like flag don't make him do it.
Speaker A:However, when I got his bag that night, my 5 year old had this photo and it was actually quite a cute photo and there was none in the bag for my 8 year old.
Speaker A:And yeah, it was because he'd said I don't want it.
Speaker A:And they'd listen to him and they didn't say oh but your mom will be really sad that she's not got this photo which we've had at other schools.
Speaker A:Like the pressure because I'm not sad that I don't have his photo.
Speaker A:I have lots of photos of him in when he's happy.
Speaker A:Like having a full smile for all at school isn't it for me?
Speaker A:And I was just really glad that one, he'd used his voice at school and two, they'd listened to him, they'd listen to his no.
Speaker A:And I still haven't fed that back to school yet.
Speaker A:So hopefully they'll listen to this or I might actually email them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And say thank you for doing that.
Speaker A:This tradition of the school fall to actually put pressure on my children that they don't want.
Speaker A:There's lots of little things along those lines that I and I apologize to the kids.
Speaker A:So one of them went to school in full uniform the other week when it was a non uniform day because I just forgotten and I'd not put it in the calendar.
Speaker A:And he come home and he was, I was like how was your day?
Speaker A:He was like, it was good and bad because I was the only person in uniform and I Was like, I'm so sorry mate.
Speaker A:Like I didn't put it on the calendar.
Speaker A:And he's like it's okay, I'll get over it.
Speaker A:Like yeah you will.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Good resilience, you see.
Speaker B:And that's also making mistakes.
Speaker B:Forgetting to email school or forgetting it's a non uniform day, not a crap.
Speaker B:That doesn't make you a crap mum.
Speaker B:Makes you human who's trying to do a million things at the same time.
Speaker B:It's too much, it's too much.
Speaker B:I'm sorry, I just don't.
Speaker B:I've spoken to you before about my, you know, my little boy's only in year one so my initiation into the school rigmarole was only last year and I was absolutely gobsmacked by it and I, I've opted out very early chores.
Speaker B:Like I, I'm not going to be the mum who is on top of.
Speaker A:The, you know, full time job in itself.
Speaker B:It really is.
Speaker B:And you know what, the mums that do all the PTA stuff and all of that sort of stuff, it is their full time job because they're stay at home moms.
Speaker B:And that's fantastic.
Speaker B:You know, that's a, that's a, one of the perks of being a stay at home mom is you get to do all that stuff if that's your, if that's your vibe.
Speaker B:But that doesn't mean that those of us who are, who are, you know, working full time also need to try and take that on as well.
Speaker B:Like it's too much for any human, for any human who wants to remain sane Anyway, 100% was actually I have.
Speaker A:A personal trainer and I was speaking to her because she also has children and she said to me the other day, she was like, I've had to put all my dates, like work dates because they obviously have lots of events and lead up to Christmas, lots of socials, lots of this and the other trying to bring the community together in the business plus starting to market for the next tranche of their new people come January plus school, plus she's a single mum.
Speaker A:She was like, I've put all the dates in chat GPT to try and pull up with a plan.
Speaker A:And I was like, how ridiculous though that there's that many dates that we're trying to organize that we need AI to help us with it.
Speaker A:That just proves to me that this whole juggle on our own, it's gone too far.
Speaker A:We, we are too far.
Speaker B:We are lost in the woods if we assume that we maybe don't want ChatGPT to be our co parenting pilot.
Speaker B:What else?
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:Okay, we've established that there's too much.
Speaker B:We've established that we want to approach Christmas in a way that aligns with our values, that we're okay with letting stuff go, that we acknowledge that, you know, a lot of the decisions we make are potentially not ours.
Speaker B:They're based in voices outside of our own.
Speaker B:They're based in the demands of consumerism.
Speaker B:They're based in.
Speaker B:In just established patterns of behavior, maybe from our families or maybe from external sources, that it's okay for us to question and evaluate whether we want to perpetuate them or whether we want to do things our own way and create maybe a Christmas that feels a bit more peaceful and a bit more rooted in intentionality and alignment with our values that we hold as a family year round.
Speaker B:Because Christmas is just.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, it's two months now of the year, apparently.
Speaker B:But, you know, really, it's just a week.
Speaker B:It's just a week.
Speaker B:It should just be a week of the year.
Speaker B:It doesn't stand separately to the way that we parent and the way that we exist as family units for the rest of the year.
Speaker B:So maybe we can make it a bit more integrative.
Speaker B:That said, what are we doing to try and make that more of a reality?
Speaker A:Yeah, I think it's really important for me to say here as well.
Speaker A:I would say for the last five years, I've really struggled with Christmas to the point where it's got.
Speaker A:To the point where I'm like, I just don't want to do Christmas anymore.
Speaker A:I just opt out of Christmas in its entirety.
Speaker A:Forget the Christmas magic.
Speaker A:I don't care.
Speaker A:I don't want to do it.
Speaker A:I just want to focus on getting my work done and getting everyone through it.
Speaker A:And this year, I feel different about it.
Speaker A:I feel actually, I do want to step into that Christmas.
Speaker A:I don't want to be a bar humbug.
Speaker A:And part of that I hate Christmas, and I hear a lot of mums say it, I hate Christmas is the overwhelm.
Speaker A:It's not that we hate Christmas.
Speaker A:We hate the overwhelm that comes with Christmas, which now means that we are so far detached from what Christmas actually is.
Speaker A:We don't actually know what we're doing, and we just want it over and done with.
Speaker A:We want to get to the other side so we can have some of that brain space back.
Speaker A:There is things that I have done and I will continue to do, like we go away for Christmas week We take just a hard cross and we go away.
Speaker A:We will carry on doing that.
Speaker A:But this year, I want to bring back Christmas.
Speaker A:Like, I want to take Christmas back.
Speaker A:I want to bring it home.
Speaker A:I don't want to feel like.
Speaker A:I don't want to opt in to loop us right back to the beginning where I was in that talk.
Speaker A:I wrote something in my notebook which she'd inspired me and I literally put, it is not our responsibility to keep the stories alive, to line the pockets of big corpse.
Speaker A:And this was me, like, this is me taking back Christmas now, because I'm not doing Christmas the way all these adverts on TV are telling me to do Christmas.
Speaker A:This year, I'm going to do Christmas the way I want to do Christmas.
Speaker A:And the way I'm approaching that is probably very different to the way Claire would approach it.
Speaker A:But I'm going to run Christmas the way I run my business.
Speaker A:I'm going to think about it strategically, I'm going to think about how to do it efficiently and I'm going to focus on the activities that actually matter, because that's how I'd run my business.
Speaker A:And I think Christmas isn't.
Speaker A:Is a business in its own sense.
Speaker A:Like, what is the value I'm bringing to the table?
Speaker A:What value am I getting back and how do I make it a lovely experience for all involved?
Speaker A:But, yeah, I don't think Claire would run it the same.
Speaker A:And what I mean by that is that I. I always want to be looking at what are we doing this for, why?
Speaker A:And then how do I put that in place?
Speaker A:But my brain's quite a logical brain, so it likes to be planned and efficient.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I love that for you, though, that's.
Speaker B:That that makes.
Speaker B:My brain doesn't work like that, but I completely appreciate the logic.
Speaker B:Like, that makes perfect sense.
Speaker B:So how.
Speaker B:What does that.
Speaker B:Can you give an example?
Speaker B:Like, what does that look like for you?
Speaker A:That looks like me looking at my calendar and I've already done this.
Speaker A:I did this the other weekend and seeing what it is that I need to do now.
Speaker A:I can't say I'm just not working in December.
Speaker A:As I've already explained, I'm a cfo.
Speaker A:Like, I just.
Speaker A:I can't do that.
Speaker A:It's like suicide for my career.
Speaker A:Like, we're not going to do that because I'm ambitious and also I really care about my clients.
Speaker A:So we're not going to do that.
Speaker A:I have a board meeting on the 18th of December, so I will be working at least till then.
Speaker A:But I do fly to our holiday for Christmas on the 22nd of December.
Speaker A:So I will be uncontactable.
Speaker A:I'm not taking my laptop with us for a week.
Speaker A:So that full week, 22nd of December to the 29th, we will be off grid, like, just with my head cross and really enjoying Christmas that way before then, we're looking at the diary and like, right, when do we do Christmas shopping?
Speaker A:How do I do that?
Speaker A:We'll probably have spreadsheets for the gifts that we need to buy.
Speaker A:Even though I unsubscribe to buying gifts for the sake of buying gifts, there are people in my sphere, so parents in particular, that gifting is a love language of theirs.
Speaker A:So I am doing it for them.
Speaker A:Even though I don't really subscribe to gifting.
Speaker A:Like, if no one got me a gift at Christmas, I wouldn't care.
Speaker A:And I'm not just saying that.
Speaker A:I just really wouldn't.
Speaker A:Like, it does not bother me if no one wished me a happy Christmas or asked me how I was or just touched, like, just sent me a little message, then I'd be upset.
Speaker A:Like, if no one reached out, then I'd probably cry.
Speaker A:But the gifting, I'm not that bothered about because it's just not my love language.
Speaker A:It's not how people connect to me.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I'll have a spreadsheet that has all my gifts on where we're getting them from, how much we're spending.
Speaker A:It'll have a budget so we don't overspend.
Speaker A:Because I think that's the other thing.
Speaker A:People get into debt to just uphold this story.
Speaker A:We don't need to be doing that.
Speaker B:We agree on that.
Speaker A:And this again comes back to the Father Christmas thing, where parents feel the immense pressure to give their children what they're asking for, that they put themselves in financial difficulties to achieve that.
Speaker A:And I just think, no, let's teach our kids a bit of resilience.
Speaker A:Let's teach our kids a bit of disappointment.
Speaker A:My kids are going to be disappointed this Christmas because they're not going to be getting a lot of gifts because we're taking them away.
Speaker A:And they won't like that because Tick Tock says that they should have a mountain of presents under the tree.
Speaker A:And my kids aren't going to have that.
Speaker A:So they are going to probably feel a bit disappointed on Christmas.
Speaker A:I'm okay with that.
Speaker A:I have enough capacity to hold their disappointment and know that I am upholding the values of our family, which isn't over consumerism like that.
Speaker A:Isn't what we value in our family.
Speaker A:So we're going to hold that disappointment and teach them.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's okay to feel disappointment.
Speaker A:It's okay to feel a bit sad on Christmas morning and we're here together to feel it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I love this so much.
Speaker B:I agree with you so, so, so wholeheartedly on this.
Speaker B:Allowing children to feel disappointment and allowing them to feel real emotions and just being a space that can hold those, I think is so, so important and so not prevalent at the moment.
Speaker B:Like, there's this kind of idea that kids should never feel disappointment or sadness, that they should always be allowed to feel like they're winning and things are fair.
Speaker B:And I just think, you know, the world doesn't work like that.
Speaker B:You're setting children up to understand that the world operates in a way that it, that it doesn't.
Speaker B:The world does not operate in a way in which you get everything on your Christmas list and you always win every race and, you know, you never have to suffer disappointment or feel that things haven't gone the way you want.
Speaker B:You know, and to learn that lesson for the first time as an, as a young adult is, is painful.
Speaker A:Really painful.
Speaker A:Because then you're also at an age where you can't go running into the arms of your mother.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Hold you in that emotion and have.
Speaker B:An unconditional safe space to help you understand and process that.
Speaker B:That's an okay thing to feel.
Speaker B:I think that's so important.
Speaker B:I was watching something on Instagram the other day.
Speaker B:There's this woman I follow.
Speaker B:I think her name's Tori Winstead.
Speaker B:And her whole thing is that she's a mum who stopped giving out snacks.
Speaker B:That's like her whole thing.
Speaker B:She's got two toddlers and she's like, I don't do snacks anymore.
Speaker B:We don't do snacks.
Speaker B:And it's like her whole documenting, her whole journey with this and she talks about drip feeding disappointment.
Speaker B:So obviously you don't want them to be gutted, but it's okay for them to want something in the moment and not get it.
Speaker B:That's okay.
Speaker B:That's an okay thing for them to experience.
Speaker B:In fact, it's an essential thing for them to experience.
Speaker B:And again, that's a really, really good example of what we've been talking about.
Speaker B:You're choosing a value that your family holds regardless of the fact that it's Christmas or not, and you're prioritizing that over in the moment.
Speaker B:Gratification and the expectation that everything should be perfect and happy and lovely.
Speaker B:Because it's not.
Speaker B:And like you talked about, your experience of Christmas is simultaneously holding grief with trying to give your kids the magical Christmas that you want to create for them and the memories you want to create for them.
Speaker B:And that's the reality.
Speaker B:You know, probably not to the same extent as the grief that you have to hold.
Speaker B:But everybody, I think, can resonate with the idea that it's not perfect.
Speaker B:You have to hold multiple things.
Speaker B:Christmas exists in and around all of the other stuff that we're all dealing with every day.
Speaker B:And that includes holding grief and sadness and depression and shame and guilt and all the other things that we experience as humans.
Speaker B:So the idea that you have to create a perfect day where nobody's disappointed and nobody's upset is actually impossible.
Speaker B:Setting us all up to fail and creating a situation in which everybody probably feels more guilt and shame than they did to begin with.
Speaker A:Correct.
Speaker A:Do you want to really annoy me this year as well?
Speaker A:God, I'm gonna call out Tesco.
Speaker A:Sorry, Tesco.
Speaker A:In fact, I'm not even sorry.
Speaker A:I don't think I'm sorry for anyone who knows me and has had a conversation with me.
Speaker A:I adore Tesco for the way that it's done business that I'm a business girly.
Speaker A:So I have case studied Tesco for the last probably 20 years and this year.
Speaker A:And I hate shopping there because I know what they're doing.
Speaker A:Like I can walk in and I can spot it and then they still get me and I've still spent way more than what I went in there for.
Speaker A:Really annoys me.
Speaker A:They're just really good.
Speaker A:They're really good at what they do.
Speaker A:And that is a business girl I adore as a consumer and buyer hate.
Speaker A:Anyway, this year, their advert is all about the realities of Christmas.
Speaker A:So it's showing.
Speaker A:People arguing.
Speaker A:It's showing like the non.
Speaker A:The non advert of Christmas.
Speaker A:Tesco have took that and run with it.
Speaker A:And I'm sat here like, I love that you've done that because that is going to mean that you do get more sales because people are starting to realize that this picture perfect Christmas doesn't exist.
Speaker A:And also I hate that because you're going to get more sales off the back of it.
Speaker A:And now you're doing what you're really good at, which is taking the reality and making more sales off the back of it.
Speaker A:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker A:They're still profiting offers even when we get more aware of what they're doing.
Speaker A:And that's where the gifting really bugs me.
Speaker A:Like, we have members of our family that just want to buy because we have to have gifts on Christmas and the kids have to feel spoiled on Christmas.
Speaker A:And it's like actually the bigger gift is helping them understand that there is different emotions other than just, I don't know, consumerism, happiness, instant dopamine.
Speaker A:Here we have other things other than dopamine in our system that we are also okay to feel and.
Speaker A:And hold and be with.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's manufactured joy.
Speaker B:That's what I call it.
Speaker B:It's manufactured joy for profit, which isn't very Christmassy.
Speaker B:It's almost more annoying, isn't it, that they've kind of capitalized on the truth of a message which exists to make more money off it?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Absolute genius.
Speaker A:But also, how dare you?
Speaker B:Yeah, also.
Speaker A:Boo.
Speaker A:Also.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I'm a bit more torn on the gift giving because I am someone who loves to give gifts and I love to get gifts, if we're going to be really honest.
Speaker B:I love.
Speaker B:I do love gifts when they're thoughtful and meaningful.
Speaker B:I don't value gift giving out of obligation, and I don't value it out of extravagance.
Speaker B:I don't feel that that's necessary in 99.9% of scenarios.
Speaker B:So we have family members as well, who I think gift out of a sense of obligation.
Speaker B:And in the past, that's been put on me.
Speaker B:And it's difficult to navigate that within your own family, where there's a sort of.
Speaker B:There's a sense that you're not being generous because you're just not buying, you know, an obligatory tin of biscuits for someone who doesn't want the tin of biscuits or need the tin of biscuits.
Speaker B:Just because that's what you do at Christmas.
Speaker B:When you talk about me learning how to say no, that was a really good one.
Speaker B:I did that years ago.
Speaker B:Just the sort of everyone gets a token gift thing.
Speaker B:I've stepped back from that completely.
Speaker B:I do love to buy things for people that I think they will really treasure, or that for me, it's almost like I saw this and I feel like this is a piece of you or this is a piece of my love for you.
Speaker B:What I value in you.
Speaker B:This is a representation of that.
Speaker B:This is a token of that.
Speaker B:And this is what I want to gift to you with the intention that actually it's going to mean something to you.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:And if I can't find that for someone, I just won't buy them anything.
Speaker B:You know, that's what gifting I think is supposed to be.
Speaker B:And if you can't find it, then that's okay.
Speaker B:Maybe like you say, just let them know that you thinking of them and you love them and you're wishing them a merry Christmas.
Speaker B:It's probably more valuable.
Speaker B:They might not see it like that.
Speaker B:But again, that's about choosing your actions based in alignment, not expectation.
Speaker B:That's really difficult.
Speaker B:Difficult thing, I think, to navigate sometimes, but it's like a muscle.
Speaker B:Similar to when you say no and all your friends don't fall out with you immediately.
Speaker B:But just because you've said no, the more you practice it, the more you realize that whatever the story is in your head of the catastrophe that's going to happen doesn't actually play out in reality.
Speaker B:So once you know that, it becomes easier to do it again and again, doesn't it?
Speaker B:So with the gift giving, I take a lot of time and I try and research gifts with a lot of intentionality and I also keep them limited.
Speaker B:So like with the kids particularly, Todd and I have agreed that we don't want to get into a quantity over quality situation.
Speaker B:You know, the big, huge piles of presents.
Speaker B:And we need to establish that early doors, because otherwise, I think you get into a situation where there's more expected year on year and it just becomes a kind of a snowball.
Speaker B:And we've communicated to like grandparents, for example, as well, like, keep it to one gift, please.
Speaker B:We don't want piles and piles of gifts for the kids because it's too much.
Speaker A:What would you do if they came with more?
Speaker B:You have to accept that people are going to do what people are going to do.
Speaker B:You have absolutely no control over anybody else's behavior.
Speaker B:However, I think as parents, you have the right to say, I've expressed my wishes here and I've expressed why they're important and you've ignored me and you've gone against that.
Speaker B:As a result, I'm going to have to maybe put some kind of boundary in place around maybe next year.
Speaker B:The gifts have to come through me before they get given to the kids.
Speaker B:And if there's too many, half of them are going to be donated because that's my boundary and that's how this family operates.
Speaker B:We don't do piles of presence.
Speaker B:So ignore my instruction if you would like to.
Speaker B:But I'm then going to have to put some measures in place probably to make sure that the outcome isn't going against my wishes.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker B:I think that that's a reasonable thing to do.
Speaker A:I think I need to put more boundaries in place with family on some of these things, because even if we keep it small, families seem to cool.
Speaker A:And there's also this whole thing of, like, spending the same amount of money on everyone.
Speaker A:And then I'm like, well, it shouldn't really be about that.
Speaker A:My favorite ever gift was a packet of Werther's Originals.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Because I'm not really.
Speaker A:Like, I don't really love gifts.
Speaker A:Like, if I want something, I'll probably go and get it, because that's the kind of person I am.
Speaker A:And then I actually get a lot of satisfaction from saving up and getting something myself.
Speaker A:I actually love doing that.
Speaker A:Anyway, the Werv's Originals, I think they look like belly buttons.
Speaker A:And I've always thought they looked like belly buttons since being a little girl.
Speaker A:And I used to ask my granddad, please sound belly button, because that's weird.
Speaker A:And then he used to also torment me with them.
Speaker A:But as I grew up.
Speaker A:So as a little girl, I actually like where his originals as I got as an adult, I don't really like them.
Speaker A:Like, I would never buy them for myself.
Speaker A:It's not something that I would go, oh, do you know what I really fancy?
Speaker A:Where was original?
Speaker A:Because I just wouldn't.
Speaker A:But my granddaughter bought them me.
Speaker A:Whenever he saw them, he'd buy them and give them me, like.
Speaker A:And it was a little.
Speaker A:I thought of you when I saw this.
Speaker A:And that made me feel so loved and so seen.
Speaker A:And the last packet he bought me was the week before he died.
Speaker A:And I hadn't even opened them because I don't really like them.
Speaker A:So they were still in my bag.
Speaker A:And I ended up sharing them with my entire family at the hospital when we'd gone to see him, just him being there in that moment, was it all.
Speaker A:Eating belly buttons as a family, being together, that was a really beautiful gift.
Speaker A:And he'll stay with me forever.
Speaker A:Like, I will remember that moment, remember those were his originals, and remember what my granddad meant to me through that symbol of his love.
Speaker A:I think that's what gifting is.
Speaker A:The symbols of love to each other and connection to each other.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:Getting me another mug that doesn't mean much to me to put in my overflowing mug cabinet isn't always it.
Speaker A:Unless it is a mug that I absolutely adore.
Speaker A:And I do have a couple of mugs that I absolutely adore that fit perfectly.
Speaker A:And they're usually from places where people have been and thought about me.
Speaker A:And again, it's the thought behind it.
Speaker A:Not just.
Speaker A:I've been in Tesco and there's a mug, the nail on it.
Speaker A:So I'll get that.
Speaker A:Like, that has no meaning.
Speaker A:It has nothing.
Speaker A:It's just my initial.
Speaker A:But the Costa Rica mug with a sloth on it.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:That's a bit of me.
Speaker A:Of course.
Speaker A:It's my favorite mug.
Speaker A:It's what has my coffee in.
Speaker A:Every morning, I get transported back to the jungle.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's the gift.
Speaker A:That's the gift.
Speaker B:That's the gift.
Speaker B:And I think that that's what makes you feel loved.
Speaker B:It's that recognition that somebody sees you clearly enough to have seen something and gone.
Speaker B:That's a little bit of Laura.
Speaker B:That's what makes you feel loved because you're.
Speaker B:Because you're seen and you're understood and you're known deeply by your friends and by your family.
Speaker B:And that, I think, is where tokens can be really beautiful things to give and that there's no monetary value attached to those.
Speaker B:Like, how much is a pack of Weather's originals?
Speaker B:I hope they're less than £2.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Not these days.
Speaker B:Oh, you're right.
Speaker B:They're probably.
Speaker B:They're probably about two quid, I'd say.
Speaker B:But, yeah, they're not expensive.
Speaker B:And that's it.
Speaker B:And I saw that last year with my little boy.
Speaker B:The things that I. I think his favorite things and the things that were most played with that he got for Christmas were small things that I put in his stocking.
Speaker B:It wasn't the high ticket.
Speaker B:They weren't even that high ticket.
Speaker B:I think I. I think I got a Transformers toy which was about 50 quid, and that was like, you know.
Speaker A:Sort of the big one.
Speaker B:And he showed a lot less interest in that than he did the magic invisible ink pen that I got him that's got a little torch on the end so he can write secret messages in your notebook and then shine the torch on that was one of his favorite things.
Speaker B:And I think it was a fiver.
Speaker B:The monetary value isn't the thing.
Speaker B:It's really not the thing.
Speaker B:It's about thinking about things that that person's really gonna love.
Speaker B:I think sake and gifting with intentionality.
Speaker B:If you want to gift at all.
Speaker B:If you don't, I think it's fine.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think that I wouldn't gift at all.
Speaker A:I'm not.
Speaker A:Like I said, I'm not a gifter.
Speaker A:No, that's a lie.
Speaker A:I'm not a gift for gifting sake.
Speaker A:I am a gifter.
Speaker A:When I see Things I'm like, oh, Claire would really love that.
Speaker A:So I'm the kind of person who will literally just show up at your door with a gift because I've seen something and it's not your birthday and it's not Christmas, it's just a random Thursday in January.
Speaker A:I saw this and I had to get a year.
Speaker A:Sorry, I know you're trying to declutter your house.
Speaker A:But tough like that is the kind of person I am.
Speaker A:But when it comes to Christmas and birthdays, I.
Speaker A:And I love someone.
Speaker A:So my dad, for instance.
Speaker A:I adore my dad and I know that his love language is gifts.
Speaker A:So I will buy him something because I want him to know that I love him and I'll do it for him, not for me.
Speaker A:So I don't really want to buy the gift.
Speaker A:It's not something that I would necessarily think is needed, but I will get it for him because that is his love language.
Speaker A:Therefore I feel like I have to do that for him.
Speaker A:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, because it's a two way relationship.
Speaker A:Just as much as I don't want him to get me one, even though that's his love language and he would love nothing more than to shower me in gifts and I'm saying, no, that's my boundary, I don't want it.
Speaker A:I also feel like I have to then give him the gift because that is his love language and that is.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a two way street.
Speaker B:It's reciprocal.
Speaker A:Although I am going away with my dad for his birthday this year.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker A:Some quality daddy daughter time.
Speaker A:Because we don't get to do that when we're a mum with lots of children.
Speaker B:Love that.
Speaker B:So less gifts, more intentional and focusing on meaning and connection.
Speaker B:Now, unlike Laura, I am not a spreadsheet girl.
Speaker B:I, I have a mood board for every one of Laura's spreadsheets.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:So the running Christmas like it's a business.
Speaker B:Whilst I, I feel like that is such a great way to approach it.
Speaker B:I wish, a part of me wishes that I operated in that way, but I really don't.
Speaker A:Such a Laura way to approach it, to be fair.
Speaker B:Such a Laura way to approach it.
Speaker B:And I guess you'll have to report back in January.
Speaker B:We'll have to do like a report back on how it went this year.
Speaker B:The winds and losses.
Speaker A:Yeah, it could be series two, episode one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:My approach I think is probably a bit softer so I can finish a bit earlier in December.
Speaker B:The way that my business operates as a, as a designer and as A brand consultant is very, very different, obviously, to working in finance.
Speaker B:So a lot of my clients are in a similar boat to me.
Speaker B:You know, I work with a lot of mums, I work with a lot of women who run their own businesses.
Speaker B:And actually, I think my gift to them is partly by me saying I'm putting a hard stop.
Speaker B:And the 12th of December this year is my last working day when it comes to client work.
Speaker B:So that doesn't mean that I won't be, you know, doing things in the background for my own business if and when that is something I want to do and something that I have availability for over the Christmas period.
Speaker B:But when it comes to client work and me being available, 12th December is my hard cut off this year.
Speaker B:So in recognizing I can't do all the things, for me, it makes most sense for that to be the thing that I put a pin in until the new year.
Speaker B:And again, my clients, even if they feel like they want to push through right till Christmas, it's much more beneficial to take a break, take a step away, focus on family and Christmas over the Christmas period, and then come back in January with all that back to school energy and dive back into work.
Speaker B:For me, that feels much more kind of flowy and much more achievable for me when it comes to the actual running of Christmas itself.
Speaker B:Again, my approach is probably a bit softer and it relies a lot more on the idea of surrender and letting things fall away.
Speaker B:So when it comes to the amount of things that we're doing, I want to create memories for my children.
Speaker B:You know, I recognize my role as the magic maker of the family.
Speaker B:In want of a better term, I think that that is my role as their mum, and I want to actually lean into that.
Speaker B:That's where I want to put my energy for the Christmas period.
Speaker B:So letting the other things fall away to give myself the availability to do that, and then leaning into alignment, leaning into intentionality and connection and meaning and thinking about what are those memories that I want to create?
Speaker B:How do I want to create that magic?
Speaker B:I want it to feel peaceful.
Speaker B:I don't want it to feel pressured or rushed or chaotic or stressful for anyone.
Speaker B:And I don't want it to feel like we're rushing around trying to meet obligations so that that looks like saying no to a lot of social obligations.
Speaker B:And it means choosing very selectively one or two things to lean into.
Speaker B:So I will choose one Christmas activity for us to do as a family.
Speaker A:1.
Speaker B:And that's what we will do in the week up to Christmas.
Speaker B:You know, that could be a grotto.
Speaker B:That could be.
Speaker B:I quite like a little Christmas train ride, something like that.
Speaker B:A Christmassy day out as a family we will do Warlove and the rest of the time we'll be leaning into things like baking cookies to leave out for Santa.
Speaker B:As a family, I always do Christmas Eve boxes for the kids.
Speaker B:I actually love Christmas Eve more than I love Christmas Day.
Speaker B:Christmas Eve is my favorite day.
Speaker B:So we usually do a big long wintry walk.
Speaker B:We usually go with my parents to collect some holly from down in the woods and then we use the holly to decorate around the house that we forage from the woods and then Christmas Eve boxes in the evening.
Speaker B:So the kids usually get a new pair of pajamas and a hot chocolate stirrer and a new book and the Christmas Eve box.
Speaker B:So we do that and bedtime and just really kind of focusing on good food and being together as a family and just sort of peaceful little activities like that that are rooted in home based traditions rather than buying things or going out to big commercialized kind of created experiences which maybe don't feel as authentic to me.
Speaker A:It sounds delicious.
Speaker A:I'm coming to you after Christmas Eve.
Speaker A:I also adore Christmas Eve more than Christmas Day, as does my eldest child.
Speaker A:He always struggles on Christmas Day.
Speaker A:So I think this is again probably a bit of autism coming out.
Speaker A:But the anticipation of this climax that then feels anti climatic Christmas Day for us as a family is actually really tricky.
Speaker A:Even if they get all the gifts, even if they get everything they want, it still doesn't live up to the expectation and they always struggle with it.
Speaker A:So I know now, years into this that Christmas Day is a lot of holding space for them.
Speaker A:And that is one of the reasons why we go away now because trying to hold space for children that are finding it particularly tricky, as well as grandparents that aren't haven't been to therapy, haven't done all the work.
Speaker A:So then you also have to kind of hold their emotions too whilst also trying to cook turkey and whatever else we're trying to do.
Speaker A:It was just too much for me.
Speaker A:And I got to the point where I'm like, I'm just spending my entire Christmas day feeling really stressed out and I'm not enjoying this and what is the point?
Speaker A:And it's not that like I probably won't enjoy this Christmas because there's a lot of emotion in my family on Christmas Day, but there's having the space to feel those emotions rather than just push through.
Speaker A:It is different so my Christmas Day is all about creating space to be able to sit with the feelings that rise, whatever they are, and be able to hold my kids in their feelings or whatever arises.
Speaker A:Because they find Christmas Day tricky for whatever reason.
Speaker A:But Christmas Eve is magic for me.
Speaker A:And I think it's because there's no build up to Christmas Eve.
Speaker A:Christmas Eve just then becomes for me.
Speaker A:Christmas Eve is the.
Speaker A:Is the thing that is the Christmas.
Speaker A:Christmas Day is the after event.
Speaker A:That is actually really stressful.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like Christmas Eve is the magic.
Speaker B:It's the build up.
Speaker B:It's the like.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then Christmas Day is like the after party that's gone on too long, but actually everyone should just go to bed.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And actually I think reframing that and for.
Speaker A:Because the kids don't realize that Christmas Eve's the magic.
Speaker A:So parents, if you can really melt into the Christmas Eve magic, you will feel that Christmas magic and then you'll also be like, right, I've had my Christmas magic and now I can be here to hold this shit storm that is Christmas Day.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Like a recharge.
Speaker A:Yeah, I've had my magic already.
Speaker A:Yes, you can still enjoy Christmas Day, but you've also experienced what you wanted anyway.
Speaker A:So if everyone's crying and arguing and playing with the cardboard box and not the hundred pound gift that you've given.
Speaker B:Them, which they will.
Speaker A:You can do.
Speaker A:Yeah, they will do that 100% everything until the day that you just buy them a box and then they'll be really disappointed that they just got the box.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Call their bluff.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Experiment.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:Okay, well, I feel like we have, we have plans there and like I say, I feel like we should report back in the new year.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:We're not recording in December because.
Speaker B: past hour, season two, early: Speaker B:In the meantime, embrace the Christmas magic.
Speaker B:Try not to fall into the chaos.
Speaker B:We hope everyone has a very merry.
Speaker A: hristmas and we'll see you in: Speaker A:In the meantime, if you do want to catch us, you can find us itbowthands on Instagram or personally, I am Laura Tadcroft on Instagram And I am Clairthorpe.
Speaker B:And we'll see you next year.
Speaker A:This has been with both hands.
